Battleship AP Adjustment VS Destroyers – World of Warships

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Discussing proposed large-caliber AP nerf against Destroyers, it is a attempt to discourage AP shells being exclusively fired at Destroyers from Battleships. Share your thoughts and I hope you have a wonderful day!

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80 Comments:

  1. na great……. i will have even more dd noobs that rush me like hell in my GK…… greeeeeeeaaaaaaaatttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. So hard to hit in most cases, no citadels and unless they are bow on and you hit with a shell that goes down their length you can’t really get pens :s And they apparently have no internals, no boilers, no magazines. I say this as DD player, this might be a bit of a swing too far in the other direction. Also in reality if a DD got hit by even one battleship calibre shell, it would be over for them. A 6 or 8-inch shell would probably smash boilers and cripple a ship. And just imagine what this will be like facing Soviet gunboats. Super fast at long range able to now tank hits from 12 – 18 inch shells.

    • I couldn’t agree more.

    • This. Secondaries are not manned by imbeciles, no lightly armored ship should survive being within the secondaries of a BB for any length of time. You want to torp, you do it at range or plan on it being a death ride. Radar should just be line of sight that see’s through camo and smoke to thelimit of it’s range, not x-ray vision.

    • Steven Cross landing full pens on dds arent hard especially at high tier often enough I am able to land massive salvos on dds at decent ranges with my monty, yammy and zao and dm.

    • Oh I know 😀 I’ve had that happen in my Tribal more than a few times *starts a turn…see’s the shells* Oh no no no…*BEWM!* But yeah naval guns are oddly meant to be pretty accurate. And whilst the game has no baring on reality, the way some guns behave is if they are just waggling around in their mountings or the barrels are bent 10 – 20 degrees out of true half the time. But if you’re a DD and you fuck up and get hit, then thats the price to pay for your speed, your agility and the fact that you can avoid if you spot the incomming shells. But if a DD is silly enough to sail broadside on to you at long range then they deserve to be slapped and tickled. DD’s are lightly built ships but not hollow tubes powered by magic with guns that take shells from the Warp so shells should be allowed to bite into them and go off if they ain’t got a citadel (when in reality a DD was mostly what we’d call a floating citadel).

    • It’s not hard to hit them providing you can see them, your guns are loaded and there isn’t an island in the way 😉 … but God help you if you miss or rng isn’t on your side. Because in my experience it takes more than one salvo from a Battleship to take down a destroyer. regardless of tier or whatever dd loving Notser says.

  3. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with the mechanic as is. leave it alone. if you want to protect DDs, nerf radar. DDs will drive around BBs with impunity with a nerf to AP. I don’t like. I don’t like it at all. And I play tons of DDs AND BBs.

    • Geoff the Ironwolf

      +Dr Drumbeat the reason noone ever moans about hydro is because it’s short ranged. So to use it to actively hunt a DD you have to be almost on top of them and in a cap, you’re doing it infront of god and creation. And usually get killed doing it. Only really useful in early torp detection.

      Radar OTOH actually has stand off range and if you get into specific spots can cover a whole cap in safety.

    • Not really, I find hydro fantastic .. gives great torp warning … besides, that’s not my point … why didn’t Wargaming introduce premium ships with buffed hydro instead of radar ? is was I’m trying to say ….

    • Geoff the Ironwolf

      +Dr Drumbeat because all radar is, is just what you ask for. It just can’t spot torps. But hydro and radar do the same thing. Increase the base spotting range of 2.5km to X range.

    • +Geoff the Ironwolf Well you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I didn’t ask for radar .. nor the moon on a stick 😉 As far as I’m concerned, Wargaming can stick it where the sun doesn’t shine … Sweet Dreams x

    • Geoff the Ironwolf

      +Dr Drumbeat yeah well USN cruisers needed it. Everyone else. Not so much.

  4. This is total horseshit. Basically says DDs can make a mistake or just bull charge a BB and get away with it. That’s crap. And guess what Notser. That is ANY SHIP who gets into a situation. Crying that a DD gets it worse is just plain asinine. However make it ranged base I’d agree. 8-9km and below standard. Over that range 10%

    • You forget bb gun turrets weigh more then a dd of course they should nuke them

    • +SCI There is a limit to the number of torps that can be fired per minute with a 20 min timer. Now real question is where are all the rounds the Mino and Worcester fire at? 🤔

    • charliedontsurf334

      +Edhi Kurniawan The Lyon is the exception. And that was stupid of the DD to do that. Allowing him to come up and torp you is not any better. And USN 16″ shells overpen just about everything, that was likely a fluke. How often has that happened? Because I play DDs too, and that does happen, its extremely rare.

    • +charliedontsurf334 yeah no reason to grind those ships, they going to be inferior compared to other cruisers.

    • +charliedontsurf334 Ha? Ive done that with any BB… Kongou, Colorado….

  5. Александр Ванюков

    In this case torpedoes should deal 10 times less damage. Why? If DDs don’t pay for their mistakes why should BBs pay?.. I am joking of course but seriously DDs already have high speed, maneuverability, small size, smoke and low detectability to compensate low HP.

    • +P.J so you want to be transparent all time, you 100 mm gun killing in 1 minute and now yamato Guns same power as yours? A dd is small and fragile…. Its a dd. A dd.

    • +Wesley Larsen because you weight 2000 tons not 60000. Its a dd.

    • On that note, it’s ok for me to be burnt down by 3 perusing DDs that are completely cloaked simply because my spotters can see a destroyer 6+km away on a clear sunny day? God forbid I actually have a fighting chance to defend myself if I have a cruiser somewhat nearby that can reveal these OP little hoses of fire. Can’t speak for everyone on this, but I’m getting really tired of have a non-stop rain of HE brought upon me form all sides and not being able to see what I’m shooting back at. It’s a GAME based off of historical naval combat during WWII, I don’t think DDs were to worried about how much damage a random shot from a battleship firing from beyond the horizon, far more fearful of the enemy air squadron overhead if you ask me.

    • +Александр Ванюков BBs that sail like on rails are comparable to DDs who just yolo in and die immediately. Difference is, those DDs will almost certainly die, but those BBs will most likely survive since the risk of anyone torping them is pretty low. Especially considering half the DDs probably already died. BBs have it way easier than DDs on the whole, even with this change.

    • The big difference is that baBBies often can survive very late into the game while contributing very little while baDDies will almost always die immediately. BBs almost always stay way back that they are less likely going to eat a full torpedo salvo unless it is from aircrafts. I think the issue that they want to address here isn’t so much for balance, but for the fact that there are so few people want to play DD above tier 8 because of radars and things.

  6. One of 2 things will have people will just use HE all the time or BBs will sit back more, cause the time in changing Ammo.

  7. More camping BBs. BBs will try and stay even farther from the DDs.

    • Well 10km from BB is campy enough for DD. It is like BB always shooting at 20km. Cruisers often camping most of the time, no?
      They parked next to a high wall and her crew enjoyed R&R. Only radar operator still at station.

    • I don’t care what BBs do anymore. No matter the incentive they always stay far back. It simply does not matter what is done.

    • XD try sailing straight out in a yama or montana you cant turn because you get sunk unless you know you will have support

    • Sir Raint, Knight of Silverwing

      And your supports are dead one by one because they are closer to the enemies. Then you become the last one standing. Enjoy the gangbang!

    • Lies, not every bb player stays back don’t make it sound like it.

  8. The problem is often these changes are focused on high tier but effect on lower tier often is overlooked. One way I think would be to make the guns on BB that where meant to deal with DD more effective by making the secondaries very effective vs dd’s (both range and damage maybe only upto a certain armour pen) and less so vs cruisers and BB’s.

  9. Another reason to become an HE spamming RN BB by the sounds of it. That’ll be good for the game, I’m sure.
    ;-p

    • Adalberto Gutiérrez

      yup i stoped at monarch now let me get that Conqueror, it the only bb line i havnt completed and i tought it wasnt my style but now fuck those dds

    • I spammed HE with any BB even before RN BB appeared. Heck i even burned RN BB with HE.
      Someone did say KGV is should be at tier 8, so i duel a KGV with Lyon HE loaded. Lyon won, by a large margin. Also did 10K a HE salvo using Fuso to Amagi.
      It isnt just RN BB, it just the other nation BB AP is too good for them even not to try HE. To the point they still using AP against Bow on Musashi. 0 damage was ok, we’re not lucky enough to hit the superstructure…

    • There are already enough high tier battleships (non-RN) spamming HE at everything. We don’t need a change that will force even more of them to only use HE.

    • Gonna spam HE in my BB’s

  10. nooo.. wargaming got it all wrong. the reason why DDs have hard time in this game is RADAR, not BBAP. Bad plays, such as dds getting spotted by bbs, can be improved. However, stealth radars and smoked radars, dds can’t deal with.

    • Edhi Kurniawan also open water is high risk high reward you see top level players do that and pull it off because of their skill level. Dds gun boating is easy. While open water dm is hard and same with worc tho open water cas have always been the strongest look at hiv hindy zao worc all crazy strong all open water gun boat. Even double prop mod des is crazy strong open water so i guess what are you even talking about them bout being in the meta that play style is what defines high level meta

    • +The_ Skippr Easy? Try that with Acasta, ill use Kongo. Tell me should i use HE or AP, both is fine for me. You can smoke, using islands whatever. Im 100% confident to win.

    • Edhi Kurniawan beating a BB in a dd isnt hard if youre good, and i play a lot more high tier ie t8 and t10 pretty much exclusively hence why I bring up t10 ships and the meta at that tier and also comp concepts. But if youre running kongo and to make it fair lets say nicholas or minekaze id typically pick the dd over the bb for those cases especially at t5 where bb dispersion is far worse than at t10 and especially with the kongo where it only has 8 guns and has a terrible sigma and accuracy. At t10 the dd will almost always win unless the bb is far better then them or if they out play them ie smoke firing guessing and landing blind fire salvos predicting turns in smoke and counter play like radar. Tho if its the other way around that dd can open water farm the bb pretty easily. In a fair match tho say 2 competitive players the match goes to about 50/50 unless there’s help like a ship forcing the bb into a predictable path for torps, or scouting or radar play. And in bb theres almost always better shots than switching ammo type, if theres a priority target ie cbs and the bb popped dcp then the bb will switch to HE if the target is low and attempt to ligjt them on fire with 1 to 2 salvos.

    • Edhi Kurniawan also for the challenge, rather than t5 ill let you have the ability to attempt to kill me with a montana (since it has 12 shells and good accuracy and most importantly it has usn arcs so shells stick more) and I’ll take pretty much anny dd but for sake of comparison either yueyang or haragumo would work probs run range mod haragumo cuz 18.2km memes. Tho not really necessary since the torps are 12km hit hard and the dpm is good enough to chew through your armor easily more or less and it will start fires like crazy. In the case of yy good luck dodging torps that pop up at .8km when I predict your course without locking on. The counter play is either to get lucky or to have radar. The main issue with the challenge is that skill plays such a huge role that the ship class doesnt matter. Except cv cuz I’m shit at cv lmao

    • +The_ Skippr Im talking about gunboating, which pretty much is not exists at T8 to 10. When you listed Fletcher for example. Gunboating is just her secondary job. Exactly why im bringing T5, ships that has no other use than gunboating.

  11. To be fair. 12 shells from the montana can sink just about any ship in the game….

    • Yep. And the day I hit all 12 shells from a single Montana salvo on a DD is the day I also win the Powerball lottery jackpot. Using extremes to help justify a change is very dodgy.

    • +Opaheke1 Heck. The day I hit a broadside bb with 12 shells from a Fiji is the day I buy a lottery ticket. Only damn time I have one salvoed a full HP dd with a bb is when they have made the poor disition to bowtank me. Or with a he loaded Lyon….

    • +Opaheke1 Say that when extremes never happened. At a chance game, every chance is calculated to justify anything. And the said extreme is more often than detonation actually. And why do detonation flag exists, why do people use it.

  12. WG noobifying the game even more it seems…

  13. Ok I don’t like this change since it punishes pushing BBs harder than the campers.

    If I roll up in my Gneisenau and preemptively aim my guns on a corner 10km away where I know a DD is about to appear that DD deserves to take a heavy hit.

    I think implementing an accuracy/dispersion penalty on shooting at DDs beyond a certain range is better and more fair.

    Maybe beyond 10km a 0.5-1% dispersion penalty is added per kilometer peaking at 20km.

    This way you might get one or two hits at 25km if you are lucky.

    • Dont use Gneisenau if result is your concern tho. Scharnhorst, KGV, or Lyon.

    • I don’t agree with that they have been widening the BB dispersion since day one in an effort to make other ship types playable. A good example is any British cruisers, none of those things would have worked in this game three years ago but in an effort to make the game more playable for new ships the older ships have progressively gotten worse. This is without accounting for all the new features that ships have like radar, defensive AA and hydro. I’m pretty sure the reason that radar was implemented was because of ships at high tiers not being able to even detect DD’s for entire matches. The way most shima players play today was ALL DD players two years ago, there was no reason to ever use your guns except when found by enemy DD’s. High tier matches were torpedo fests at all times and populated extremely heavily with DD’s it sucked. On the other end of the scale BB’s nuked everything all the time. They already killed CV’s and are now trying to breath life back into that class because their changes to the class made them practically unplayable. The reason CV gameplay sucks so badly is they change it almost every other update in some way so if you don’t play them regularly good luck and then they just get shit from other players. I honestly think the better option for the issue with dd’s would be to increase the chances of over pens on DD’s instead of changing the amount of damage that a shell does when it sticks in the ship.

    • Jesper i like that a lot more than WG’s idea

  14. So basically as a cruiser it is ok to lose 1/3 of your health (or worse) at 20km range to a wild citadel, but as a dd its unthinkable to eat a pen?
    Well deal with it! If i sail in a straight line with my cruiser while being spotted i deserve to get blown out of the water.
    If i dont anticipate torps coming my way as a bb despite the fact that a dd was spotted near my vicinity or that i am vulnerable from that angle i deserve to get blown out of the water.
    If i dont recognize there are radar cruisers and their most loved hiding spot i deserve to get blown out of the water.
    I dont think dds are so underpowered that they need that and most of the things above you can avoid or bait.
    I am certanly not the best player, playing mostly for fun but it works to purposely open up as a cruiser to bait a bb shot sailing straight as a bb for some time to bait torps or contesting a cap as dd just to immediately disengage if you get radar detected.
    Love your vids Notser you do a great job and keep it up 🙂

    • there is a difference between 1/3rd of hp to a “wild citadel ” (while still having range and/or armor and/or speed to avoid that with rather ease) and over a half to a wild pen while having to be in front.

      and……

      as far as my experience goes these full pens never happens in scenarios where I could say it was my fault – to the oposite – most of those are RNG paying BB a favour (for example that single BBAP spreading far away from the rest of salvo catching me up in a maneuver that perfectly dodges area where guns were pointed at – BB have mislead, I have dodged, and i got punished, very fair indeed)

      main issue with radar cruisers I have is that “not being in their vincinity” is not “counterplay” when they bundle up behind cover for 100% radar uptime covering 2 out of 3 caps, while being at zero risk of return fire.

    • Some pretty stupid changes coming in. Time to stop giving them money.

    • @Trejgon I think the difference is faily small eating a cit from a yamato chunks 14,800hp away if you take 40k-50k for most cruisers (moskva 65k) or eat a pen with 4400hp on a dd with 20k hp (shima ~18k) and most of them skill survivability Expert.
      The range difference is clearly concealment based but everyone suffers from time to time from rng BS.
      In terms of Radar you have a point i dont like the fact that cruisers stand behind islands all game and radar (through the island above all) if something is contested this needs to change but the “no pens on dds from bbap” change will not help dd players its a point blank nerf to bbs and gets them rushed all the time because dds just tank 1 or 2 salvos bbap and eel him to the port this doesnt seem fair either.
      Good luck and fair sees good sir 🙂

    • +NergioN i don’t like the fact that dd’s can torp whole game, 1 set of torps for game would be better.

  15. “Oh look a DD” *changes shell type* 30 Seconds Later: “Oh look, the DD is gone and there is now a Yamato staring at me.” *changes shell type* 30 Seconds Later: *stares blindly at bottom of hull while ship sinks to the bottom having done 0 damage.”

    • Uhhh, no expert loader? No vigilance? No idea that even AP over-pens do serious damage? If you are watching your BB sink after only 60 seconds you are doing something wrong.
      You may start with learning to use your repair and heal … you can find them in your consumables.

    • Jesus, people on the internet have no sense of humor. I am fully aware of EL and Vigilance, I am fully aware of my heal and repair, I am fully aware that the people who are more likely to be devastated by BB AP are CA players. The magic spell that is Radar is your issue boys, not BB AP.

      Most of the time, if a BB hits you in a DD, you done fucked up. I don’t even bother firing at them most of the time because I play mostly USN and my shells take 900 years to levitate to the target at 10km+, by that time a DD has turned, gotten within range of me, popped smoke, fired 3 salvos of torps, and set me on fire, had a cup of coffee, smoked a cigarette, and moved on to another BB.

    • Just use the AP, 10% is high enough. Idk why you would ignore DD tho. Id turn my guns at any DD within 15km. With AP, idc 10% or 30%. The damage is cumulative as they cant repair. Next time i met them up close they will be not at full health.

    • Jason Lewis the monty is one of the best ships for nuking dds, that is the entire reason why sone hurricane teams took it was to nuke yys and gearings early in clan battles. Also radar is balanced the fact that it gives spotting the way it does is fair and doesnt need change other than limiting stealth radar to ships where that stays high risk high reward ie dds and mino

    • remember the times when playing BB was about fore-planning and predicting flow of a battle accuratelly?

      pepperidge farm remembers………….

  16. So because I know how to aim properly, and get blessed by RNGesus that my shells don’t fly off into an entirely different match and can hit the smallest, most maneuverable class of ship in the game….I’m being punished. Yeah, that seems totally fair and balanced gameplay to me.

  17. I say let’s tweak secondary battery accuracy then. Give us some level of close range defense that we can use while we have to wait 30s to switch our guns to HE.

    DDs should not be able to Zerg rush BBs and get away with it.

  18. I’m sorry, but as stated by most of the people in the comments, it’s a stupid change, yeah they talk about the 12 shells from a Montana landing on a DD, show me a video where the 12 shells land in the DD with the crap accuracy of the battleships, the high speed and maneuverability of the DD and the small target presented, go ahead, it’s nearly impossible to achieve that and most of the time you’re lucky 1 or 2 shells hit the target and they over pen. The only way to get a good hit like the one stated is that the DD is less than 5km away from the BB and not maneuvering, at which time you’ll probably be already dead.

    DDs already have a lot of advantages against BBs, heck even against a lot of cruisers (specially IJN ones), better concealment, torps that do a huge amount of damage, are not affected by flipping RNG, and cause flooding in a HE spamming meta where you can keep a ship with a perma-fire until they die, rapid firing guns that can also spam you with fires, they are faster, more maneuverable, have means to disengage from a confrontation against anything other than radar ships, radar ships that tend to die because they are overconfident and leave the team blind, also consider radar has a limited duration of which a BB can MAYBE fire 1 salvo, 2 in extreme cases, CVs which are other means to detect them, most of the time ignore when a teammate is calling for help to detect a DD and tend to do whatever the heck they want, leaving the BB to be happily hunted by a ship that can stealth fire volleys of torpedoes capable of alpha striking you for as long as you’re alive, also if the BB has already AP loaded in order to use it against another ship, if you see a DD and try to change ammo, by the time the flipping HE shells are loaded either the DD has disappeared or you are already flooding, burning or dead.

    The only thing BBs have against DDs is the ability of sticking an AP shell against them (which is already a hard thing to achieve for the reasons stated above) and I know bloody realism is not the focus of the game, but if, for example a 410mm shell out of a Nagato hits a ship of that size, it would obliterate it.

    • skcdav410 they must have made a test with a standstill ship and then sentenced that BB AP are too strong for dd’s. They should make the game in a way that every big mistake ends in a massive damage,in the same way that happens when a BB ends up being isolated and gets buried with HE spam(or massive broadside damage from other bb’s). With the meta they’re proposing with this change they’re just encouraging the most potato-ish bb players to keep playing with HE to be more effective against dd’s without changing shells,and it’s really stupid

    • I definitely agree this isn’t the way to fix it (and personally don’t feel the problem is as bad as WG makes it out to be). Even if there were a problem, using the best possible scenario for a battleship (12 guns and super lucky RNG so all 12 shells hit) doesn’t demonstrate it. Look at the average number of hits per salvo that battleships get on destroyers and the total amount of damage – I think my highest hit percentage on a destroyer was in a ranked battle in NC where I caught a Benson coming around an island 6-7km away and hit 7 shells, 6 dealing damage and killing him. Even if your shells hit, most of the time they’re going to be overpens anyway.

      Even ignoring the fact that by the time you switch to HE either the destroyer has disappeared or you’ve already been wounded by torpedoes, this isn’t the way to fix what isn’t even a problem. All this will do is cause even more BBs to load HE and never use AP in case a DD shows up.

  19. OK, you cried enough guys, you finaly got it.
    Now enjoy BBs fireing HEs NON-STOP ! Cause “what if DD pops out just in front of my T10 BB ? :D:D:D
    Most of hightier BBs reload 25+ s, even with expert loader, they will reload 12+ seconds to have the “new right ammo” to punish DD. But not potato DD will just fly in the 12s and will go conceal. So, GL with that…

  20. I think people are missing something out here. I personally shoot APs at DDs not because the DMG is good but because that is what I have loaded. 15s to change (at best) the shell makes it impractical to change shells. This change will not affect my playstyle at all. The only thing that will be different is that I wont “accidentally” blow half the DDs HPs. Also, this whole AP thing in DDs look more like a bug. Yamato/Musashi shells need to pass through 77mm of armor. I don’t see that armor on the DD unless the shell was passing through the whole ship in which case I don’t see an issue with it. That is the game model. Also hitting a DD with a BB is not easy at all unless the DD is very close, in which case the DD made a mistake and there should be consequences.

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