Concealment Expert Adjustment – World of Warships

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Sharing my thoughts on a commander skill adjustment that made the CV rework, no idea if it makes live but was interesting to discuss the topic. Hope you have a wonderful day and I’ll catch you next time!

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  1. Александр Ванюков

    Changing core game mechanics is the worst thing any developer can make (in case of free-to-play games). I doubt that all this CV rework is a good idea. I hate CVs of course but I am not sure that this rework will solve the problem.

    • +TheAllaksion in current I like it plenty

    • Александр Ванюков

      +SCI Yes, I fully agree on your thesis about DDs.

    • Dude YouDon'tNeedMyName

      @SCI I disagree. I’ve been playing since closed beta. I’m a thoroughly average DD, BB and cruiser player. But I can’t play CV’s to save my life. I can’t micromanage the disparate unit types, adequately line up multiple manual attacks nearly at once while retaining a grip on where my fighters are let alone also applying and dodging ‘strafes’. And all that’s before I even mention making sure my flat top is in the right place and going the right direction. I played both tech tree lines up to tier 6 before I quit putting the poor people teamed up with me through the horrifying losses.

      I watch people like Femmenenly and Farazelleth. I am not capable of doing what they do. Yet, overall, I don’t suck at the rest of the game. You can check – I’ve got several replays over on Lord_Zath’s channel, one of which happens to be a CV replay. Actually, that was my last CV game aside from two co-ops to complete a mission.

    • +Dude YouDon’tNeedMyName
      so stick to T4-5 if its that hard for u…
      once u master those then consider going to higher tiers.
      i never found it to be an issue…
      try to separate fighter and bomber micro.
      find a time to focus on the bombing and then after its done focus on the fighters, or the other way around.
      i also cant focus on both very well at the same time.
      CV control is simple…i just autopilot CV.
      make it go to 1 side then other then repeat, in an area u consider safe for now. from time to time glance at minimap and see where teams are. u just need to make sure u follow the team. keep them between you and enemy.

    • +SCI
      they dont care about fixing CVs. thats just an excuse. just like red said, its because of consoles. they dont mind ruining CVs for that shit.
      they can easily fix CVs by adding increased AA the longer u stay in it, consider increasing torp arming distance so its harder to delete ships, especially DDs.
      they can rebalance CV loadouts as well as fix AA and consider making it manually controllable if desired so you can actually try to defend yourself better or maybe do direct dmg to planes instead of RNG shootdowns.

  2. I don’t agree. WG has been crapping all over DD players since day one, we desperately need help. Radar on every damn ship, stealth radar, Battleship AP obliterating DDs, CVs permaspotting, etc. throw us a bone already.

    • The world isn’t out to get you. You have the most influential ship class in the game. You don’t need a radar nerf, concealment expert nerf, and BB ap pen nerf to survive. Because if all that is implemented, anybody who does not take a dd into battle is an idiot.

    • being perma spotted will in time be a thing of the past if you play well … the CV change will sort that mostly … Radar is being worked on … and as for the AP better dodging and situational awareness will help . perhaps a little more speed ???? we shall see 🙂

    • +Edhi Kurniawan well, there are many alternatives to facing a Yamato in my Colorado head on. I mean… I’ll be kiting it as fast as I can, or getting behind an island trying to flank it. Of course if all else fails, HE it is. Or else, a ram, but I dont think the Yamato will let me get that close. See what I did there? I listed alternatives to firing HE in a BB, because it is not my PRIMARY armament. But trust me, if I did decide to spam HE in my Colorado from a position of safety on something as large as a Yamato, it will die really quickly. Thats my problem with this whole shtick. HE is the superior ammo for all ships. No tactics necessary, no real need to aim either. Its ruined this game. But if this kind of nerf comes with changes to HE by itself – such that HE works like high EXPLOSIVE, not INCENDIARY – then nerf away! I couldn’t be happier.

    • +Risheen Mukherjee Yes, but discouraging people not to use it while we all still can use HE is just the same as throwing the game. I dont have problem with reducing fire chance, but if the change just affect BB, trust me even you wont be satisfied. I didnt say HE works like a high explosive, so there wont be any damage improvement. It also lead to HE spam.
      I would like to point to the repair party mechanics improvement. Something better.

    • +Edhi Kurniawan I agree that it should not be limitted to BBs alone. The truth is that most people dont understand what it takes to win a match so they will happily farm HE damage – just look at all the idiots in Conquerors and KGVs. The truth is that this game is extremely removed from the reality of naval warfare, so much that each ship tier 9 and above is facing a severe identity crisis. WG needs to put priority on things other than damage, like spotting, tanking, base capture, etc. by making these things more lucrative. Otherwise this is just a boring game with stupid cartoon ships.

  3. Just wargaming…. More and more nerfs for BBs and CAs, but still buffing DDs. Already most of the dds players strugling with gameplay and sunking their ships in first 5 mins, and it is just caused because of their wooden hands, but for WG it means that DDs are too weak. Where is the point of this ?!

    • +Jerry Glaze Never mentioned realism- why you mention it?

    • @Jerry Glaze Are you actually capable of reading, twice you state I say something and both times you totally wrong. Never said radar through hills is unreal.
      I never said playing dds is hard so L2read and stfu til then.
      Now go back and take your medicines.

    • +Kneecapper you said or in this thread that radar seing through mountains is not real. Neather is torp reload. Neather is 100mm gun penning 3w mill armor. Eather is a bb going from 0 to 3w knots in 2 min.

    • +Jerry Glaze Thanks for letting the community know your knowledge of the game and that quote “CV got removed” ask Notser to do a video about this exclusive info you have. Thanks for the laugh.
      Would ask what the 5 buffs dds got but since you have nothing else correct , I can’t be bother to read you any further drivel from you.

    • +Kneecapper well joker cv are effectivly being removed. Everyone that cv are told that they arnt worth anything Immagain they removed your ship and tols you to bad.
      Again your blnd that cannot see that cv are effectivly removed. But you go and state shame Simone that gives a dam.

  4. It should probably just go away. I’m so tired of BBs with better concealment than cruisers. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

  5. Mike Kraner-Henthorn

    so i don’t take this on my KM ships. i need the points for the secondary build. bake it in or take it out altogether. i could see a main gun speed load and a torp speed load. say 4% buff but you have to pick 1 or the other.

  6. why don’t they make the concealment expert skill an upgrade that you can gain with experience on every ship? If you think about it, it makes more sense. It’ll be like the crew tweaked the camo in such a way that it became more effective. They can keep the 10% bonus across the board if they feel that balance is necessary, but at least everyone would be able to get it and people would be able to spec into other commander skills like Notser said.

    • Now thats hella great idea xD

    • That would just spread the gap between good players and players who dont play that often.

    • Do you really want to play Vs ships that are the same ship as you but better conceal just because they played more games in it? That would mean for example clan battles with dds contesting caps goes to the most played ship not the best player.

    • Ole Petzold To be honest, that big gap already exists in player skill (most of the time). And is there really much difference between the benefits a 19 point commander provides versus making a ship’s concealment more effective the more you play it?

      I don’t think this change is really needed (as someone who plays both battleships and cruisers), but if WG wanted to remove concealment expert from builds, I would love to see them implement that idea to reward the people that stay with a ship and reduce the ship’s concealment. Perhaps having one reduction once you get to a fully upgraded ship and are just grinding to the next ship, and then another one that kicks in once a ship gains elite status and then keeps earning XP.

    • +MidnightPhoenix07 Unfortunately it makes premium ships more OP as folks play many games in them.

  7. CE should stay as it is.

    • agree, CE should stay as is. High tier BBs with better concealment than cruisers needs to change.

    • Exactly. The “problem” lies on individual ships, not all ships at a whole.

    • His point is if everyone is taking it as a skill then you should remove 4 pts from captains and just bake it into all the ships. A simpler solution to the bb vs cc issue is to have the spotting effect after firing duration tied to the caliber of the guns. So DD’s would only stay spotted for 10s and cruisers 15s and battleships 20s or something similar. Battleships suffer the least from this effect currently as they always drop visibility before their guns are reloaded.

    • Djura Dimitrijevic

      if it aint broke dont change it … and i did not hear any one complain about it up until now. And i play cruisers mostly. And the “problem” is in individual ships.

    • YUP!

  8. Not going to weigh in on which class of ship WG likes the most. I agree that if a commander skill becomes “universal” it should then be baked in to the game and something new can be put in its place.

    • Um did they no do that already with situational awareness? Originally that skill would tell you when you where detected everyone garbed it except CVs so they made it the default so just do that.

    • +Flame Arora Yes they did and Concealment Expert is just the same. Nearly everyone uses it in every build. As Notser said it is mandatory. Perhaps WG should consider making a different kind of skill tree for the different classes? I hear already all the people moaning, that you can’t take the captain to another class anymore, bla bla bla. To be true, you can’t do it now in 95% of all cases. Cruisers and DDs are the nearest with their skills, but skill, they use a slightly different set of skills and they differ more the higher the tier is.
      Yeah, people will also cry that a class may have a skill another class hasn’t, but hey it is another class with another role and mission objectives. When people play RPGs it is never a problem, when the classes have totally different sets of skills. Even the skill differ depending on a race you choose!

  9. There are other skills that I would love to put on my Grosser Kurfurst but not with 4 points invested in Concealment Expert.

    • Concealment on GK is useless because use Vigilance and target acquisition upgrade to spot torps at greater range yes they can see you at 17 km away but at least it’s better to bounce shells then to eat 10 Shima torps you can spot only 1 meter away. Deepwater even worse

    • Joshua Picklesimer

      I think you are right thanks for the advice.

    • +SCI You forget one crucial point, though: HE shells can’t be bounced. What’s going to stop the battleship that tries to push from getting HE spammed into oblivion? The only thing that can prevent that is being able to disengage quicly with Concealment Expert.

    • I think I just need to play several more battles in the GK to really understand what upgrades and skills are best.

    • +SCI Shima torps are literally the ones spotted from the moon. What you mean are probably gearing torps, those are far more dangerous.

  10. only 10% on BB isn’t worth it. The 4 points are better spent on health recovery at that point.

  11. Thx, Notser. I agree completely and expressed that oppinion on several posts and comments in the past.
    The only thing that would change if CE was not there anymore was that – apart from all (because it’s mandatory) the ships having worse concealment – we had more points to spare and spec into other things that otherwise would or can not be considered. Especially with captains that don’t have 19 points yet.
    I often times wish I woould not need CE and could spec into something like RPF or manual AA / secondaries instead. But especially with those gimmicky ships that is not even an option with 19pt captains because you need to push the gimmicks and don’t have enough points left.

    • The problem is that the conceal expert effect is actually required on dds to be playable, the removal is not equal across all ship classes. Tier 7 DD especially without CE would have a very small window and none if enemy moving away to stealth torp and would struggle to cap. Being not spotted in BB in nice but for a lot of time in the game it is vital for dds. Not defending dds just saying it would be a major change to the ship class balance (for good or bad?). It would also make the maps smaller in some ways.

  12. Totally do not agree. This is a huge buff to DD and a huge nerf to everything else ship wise. It now will be useless for the points especially for BB. Worst change they could do…. they already nerfed BB AP damage suck against DDs. Doing both totally over power DDs and give crushers and battleships the shaft! I’ve played for a long time but I’m quickly losing interests. No it’s not weird that Bbq get decent concealment because their bloom out upon fire makes them visable mostly across the map. The cruiser can rain HE down in the battleships at will. On hope of escape was concealment hoping they could fall off map and heal and out out fires. This will just encourage battleships to play safe and be less aggressive. Why risk it anymore?? AA builds will be more needed due to the better CV play that will come in the game. Concealment was one of the best skills you could select.

    • Good. DDs have had the short stick for too long. This increases their impact on the game by decreasing the impact of other classes. Do you realize that DDs are the _least_ played class across all servers and have the _least_ average experience per game?

      Also, do you honestly expect Bbabies to be any _more_ passive than they already are? All this changes is their passiveness in the early game being mandatory and reinforces the rock-paper-scissors format the game is based around.

    • +Dylan Wight lol CVs are the least played and you can’t tell me otherwise when i’m in top tier with 4 and 5 DDs per team every game. While we’re here, please explain to me how DDs are underpowered when three hits from a tier 2 torpedo does the same amount of damage as a citadel penetration from a Yamato shell, and there are ships like the Yueyang who have ten torpedoes that do more damage than Yamato shells that you can’t see until they’re less than a kilometer away and more ships can’t dodge them?

    • +IKnowMyWorldWars Please explain to me how a torpedo traveling 61kt with a 1.6km concealment and 15600 damage is overpowered at T-X?

      T-II torpedoes are lucky to break 10,000 damage to begin with, let alone what you do after hitting a torpedo bulge!

      Getting Yueyang into a position where she can punish broadsiding battleships should be applauded. It means they’ve defeated the radar menace.

    • +Dylan Wight Okay lets do some math. We’ll take the Shimakaze with her 12 km torpedoes as the Shimakaze is the most played tier 10 ship acording to The Shimakaze has 15 torpedoes with 23766 maximum damage per torp. That means that every wall of skill launched by a shimakaze in its most popular configuration puts out 356,490 potential damage. This is more than any BB’s DPM. Montana: 12 guns * (30s reload/60s) * 13500 max damage per shell = 324,000 potential damage.

  13. Again, another nurf for BBs and CAs, because DDs player are crying. Keep going and you will piss off all your BBs and CA players.

  14. The Conqueror with current concealment can be 11.9. With changes it’ll be 12.5. Hindenburg with current system is 12.49… with changes it’ll be 12.8. Really only a difference of .2 … big whoopeee. Still dumb that a battleship has better concealment than a cruiser.

    • That’s just it…. that’s WG fault to begin with. Not BB players fault. The Conqueror shouldnt have better concealment than cruisers or even close too. It should be like all the other tier X BBs.

    • and the poor Ibuki too, i mean Ibuki is the worst cruiser at t9 and could be the worst ship at high tier, already she doesnt need it

  15. Okay, this is my personal opinion on Wargaming’s “balancing” system as someone who has played destroyers, cruisers, and battleships. In the realm on detection and stealth play there are pros and cons in everything, American destroyers have such a poor torpedo range that it renders them basic gun-boats. Meanwhile Japanese destroyers have torpedo ranges that can almost match that of effective battleship main battery ranges, meaning they have no reason to ever fire their main guns. With the AP nerf to battleships against destroyers debate many destroyers justify the nerf saying that a destroyer shouldn’t have to pay for making a mistake, my question is what mistake did they make? Is docking nest to and island to set up an undetected torpedo strike against any unsuspecting enemy ships? Is it a mistake that a destroyer rushes into a capture zone without the aid of his team and does nothing but sit inside of his smoke screen? Need it be said that in a real world event such as these battles should take place, I don’t see how on a sunny, clear day would result in any spotter on any warship losing sight of an enemy ship as dangerous as a destroyer. Furthermore on the over used excuse of unrelenting cruiser radar coming into its own as a necessary addition to any loadout, let it also be said that all of this era’s ships during World War II were guided and fought sea battles strictly relying on their radars. So again what mistakes are being made that players don’t like being paid for; as a early destroyer player, I have sank many enemy battleships as collateral damage when I was engaged in combat with another enemy destroyer at close range missing them with a random torpedo launch. On the opposite side of things I have been detected and remained so the entire game due to a destroyer not being detected and it resulted me having to spend well over ten minutes of the match dodging relentless torpedo’s along side long range battleship AP, cruiser, and destroyer HE. Real world destroyers would always be the focus of incoming enemy fire as they would lead the charge or be the distraction to cover their fleets escape, relying on their superior maneuverability and speed to avoid incoming shells. When I (as a current battleship player) fall into a position where I am faced with overwhelming odds, most of my team just tells me to “get good and stop whining”. This harsh sentiment does seem to carry over to any other branch of ships, I have seen times where battleships are told to charge into battle to draw fire so their destroyers and cruisers can run away from the fight. I have even been blamed for the deaths of cruiser teammates because I was using island cover to shield myself from incoming HE rounds from every direction and not pushing into the crossfire zone. While yes I have easily triple the health as even the most boosted cruiser, that health pool can be drained in a matter of seconds under the onslaught of hundreds of HE shells that can’t be bounced off of my angled armor. So in short destroyer cruiser players latch onto these major changes as Wargaming “throwing them a bone” when I have yet to see any nerfs applied to destroyers at all, and only slight nerfs dealt to cruisers, meanwhile battleships have had to contend with lowering of damage out puts, longer reload times, and now reduced stealth compensations. Until you can say you have played the full extent of each ship type and felt the full impact of what every little change has for that type, you have no ground to stand on.

    • Low tier DD players are still going to complain about being blapped at the start of the game trying to get a cap circle alone – this is a team game, sneaking caps is one thing, but solo capping is no longer safe at any tier. Other ships are too fast, too stealthy, too much radar, but then again when you remind yourself of these things, playing a DD isnt that hard and can do really well as long as you dont make grave mistakes like being the only one spotted 2 minutes into a game 5km away in a cap circle, just plain stupid players in the end.

    • I stopped reading at the torp ranges comparison. There’s more to torpedoes than range. You clearly have not played DDs past tier 6…

    • “Japanese destroyers have torpedo ranges that can almost match that of effective battleship main battery ranges,” that’s a nice joke, the only ones which could get close to that statement exist only on two ships (shimakze and asashio) and shimakaze’s ones are crap and asashio’s ones are… gimmicky

    • +ArmchairWarrior that’s all nice and dandy untill you get 3 worcesters camped behind island chaining radars for permaspot on two out of 3 caps and you can’t even realistically break range because at the very first moment youcease to hug thatspecific island you are hugging right now you’ll get blasted by half enemy team just waiting for you to leave said hard cover.

      I haven’t really seen much of DDs complaining about being blasted out of the water by anything in low tiers – the issue is on high ones.

      as much as I’d want it to be as you say – the situations is slightly more complicated than “stupid players doing stupid things, dying and complaining”

  16. Why would you punish a BB player for playing a ship with large guns? Then make the guns act like a small caliber gun against only DD’s. I play DD’s and understand a BB can delete me, that’s why I use situational awareness. You need to know where the BB’s are before you attack. Changing a BB’s guns to do less damage against a DD is really stupid. Everyone I know that plays DD’s are the same. Then when that DD come to attack a BB the BB is going to have a extremely hard time to defend itself against DD attacks. It makes no sense to do this.

    • This change will only make more those run toward BBs know that they can hit you for like 1-2.000hp every 25-30sec so you can endure 2-3 salvo and torp T10 BB from 2-3km away so 80% of your torps will hit and oneshot him – it will only create more of those edge hunting lonely DDs tha cap-ing one

    • +Dylan Wight 18.1″ HE shells will very much blow up on contact with anything that isn’t exactly air. That is what it is designed to do! It is not an AP shell. It is a thin walled tin can with a lot of explosives with no delay fuse. Its job is to blow up tin cans and make big explosions against armies in the open field.
      The Key here is that the BB needs to switch to HE. If he does and he has his guns pointed he’ll delete a DD. If he doesn;t he can switch shell types or shoot AP for very little damage. That’s the whole point!

    • +Dwight Looi I completely agree. Moreover, the battle reports from Taffy 3 show that Yamato’s 18.1″ AP shells went clean through the escort carriers without doing any significant damage other than taking out a couple of unfortunate aircraft in the hangar.

    • +Dwight Looi and then you have rn bbs who spam he all game and delete every dd on sight.

      You have a good point but for balance? Nah

    • +Wen Juckts I have no problems with that. If you are a DD and spotted at 8~10km by a BB with HE loaded, you should be deleted the moment he gets those 15 or 16″ guns on you! Look for an island to duck behind or smoke to cover your retreat. Whatever you do, do it fast because you are not supposed to survive those big guns. The problem with the BB vs DD relationship is BBs deleting DDs at 15~20km with AP shells.

  17. I couldn’t agree more. CE should have been baked into ship’s stats years ago. Every optimal build uses it. That is boring. Captain skills should encourage variety.

  18. I love this game, only game I’m playing at this point and poured in more money it than any other game I’ve ever owned. WG has been changing so much lately that the game is becoming something way different from when I started playing. Example, I wanted the flint so bad that I started playing ranked and ground my way through three season to earn it. Now you can just purchase it with steel! I feel like I waisted my time, well it is a video game lol. But people grind long hours to obtain a ship or a special module just to get it changed later on and not be what they originally ground out for. People are getting sick of it and are starting to walk away. I’m starting to loose interest myself but my wife and kids will probably enjoy the adjustment as it will make more time for them.

    • btw, if you look at steel and adjustments for how much you get, it is now harder to get the steel ships now than it was before.

  19. Oh for christs sake WG! Havent you heard the saying “If it aint broke dont fix it?” This is going to piss off alot of BB and CL players myself included.

  20. They should make it just unlock across all commanders when you have 10 points. No extra cost, just get to 10 and it unlocks, just like how situational awareness is always there

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