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These are my thoughts on why cv’s don’t belong in the game. It is based in expert level knowledge of how this game is played and its many system. I’m making this not to change minds but to get my ideas all in one place. Some people in my stream have been asking for a video like this so here it is. If you want to see my point form thoughts i’ll link the google doc below.
I’m Potato_Quality, a member of O7, and probably one of the best battleship players in this game. Hopefully, on this channel, I can teach you a bit about how battleships are played. Thanks for watching.
Chapters:
0:00 introduction/credentials
4:13 cvs don’t fit the game
6:14 cv crossfires
9:39 how to dodge cvs
12:27 automated aa
16:19 cv spotting
19:04 cv damage
23:44 cv vs cv gameplay
27:09 cv games vs non cv games
30:34 impact on destroyers
31:13 impact on cruisers
31:47 impact on battleships
32:36 wot arty comparison
33:56 cv skill vs surface skill
36:54 cv players playstyle
39:52 realism argument
40:51 spreadsheet balance
43:17 solutions
45:53 conclusion
Fun fact: Pilots can only report enemies’ position by pinging mini map during WW2.
@Kevin Mo If you honestly think highping100 is being literal then you have reading comprehension problems or never read a history book. Apparently your under teh delusion that radio’s are a 21st century phenomenon, because they arn’t
@Matthew McConaughey If this was applied to every ship and the aerial detection nerfs removed, this actually might not be a problem.
@Nikhil Seenivas T K Read a history book before making a comment like that. Even destroyers survived Kamikaze hits. I cannot believe the degree of ignorant people attracted to a history based game.
@Mthammere2010 i think ya tagged the wrong person here mate
@Mthammere2010 Yea and if you think I was accusing him of being literal consider not using a crystal ball thinking it is telling you what others are thinking. Its making an ass out of you!
Jingles calls them the fun police… rightfully so
@Gorgon Bertactually play with him, you’ll understand.
His behavior is irrelevant to the nickname he gave to aircraft carriers
@Marcus Jones Stinks Why do you say that? I find the guy quite funny
@Raphael Vulfs he’s funny in his videos, but in my experience in a couple games with him, he starts nice until you don’t do what he says, then he turns into a big headed asshole that expects you to do what he says or he heckles you, and your stats. Thats why. Just because you think you’re important being a YT pop star doesn’t mean you are better than anyone else.
@Marcus Jones Stinks Fair enough
Being good at the game, means you have a good understanding of the game.
I don’t understand why expert opinion is not valued or dismissed? An unbalanced CV class affects the average player far more than the unicum.
A balanced class benefits all players on the receiving end, whether you are good, bad, or average.
On the issue of balance within the classes, please refer to the analysis conducted by WG themselves 40:53 (Spreadsheet Balance).
@maou fuki another point not brought up that is worth contemplating is that most teams can overcome a potato DD, CA, or BB. You lose one of those early and you still think “we can overcome that potato shima” you lose a CV early, have an AFK CV, or have a CV with no skill and you cant come back. Sure, one time out of 20 you might, but generally speaking losing a CV ends the match right then. Both in real life and in the game CVs are OP.
@dzello Again, not actually tackling any of the argument, just saying people are wrong……wow great job.
@caleb gettman well well with a kutzov in RTS full AA against a MIDWAY fullsquadron got wrecked in 20 second before it can drop me … so failed argument… old rts AA was superb… try fight against that now.. try manual and the nerfed defense of fire!!!
@CP Mak It’s already all done. Wether you don’t get it or do, it’s on you.
Based, especially with the credibility part. Getting game advice from someone that’s bad at the game is like getting financial advice from a homeless person
@Mitchell Oates Then I would suggest that PQ listen to professional public influencers on how to approach your audience. He made just about every mistake, actually would be a great example on “How to piss off and demean your audience”.
@Sotha42 It appears I completely misinterpreted your statement before, so I apologize for that.
If I’m reading this right, you’re saying:
– If *I* am an expert, then I should judge all arguments put forth on the merits of their evidence
– If I *am not* an expert, then I should judge based on who is saying them, because I have no real way of knowing otherwise
And you’re criticizing him for dismissing arguments out of hand based on the speaker when he should have the knowledge to be able to judge them on their own merits, and because he might miss something that he otherwise would have seen.
Fair enough. I don’t hold it against him as much because I still remember the Graf Zeppelin, but yeah that’s still a black mark when I think of it that way.
Yes, but most homeless people are people who have had major incidents outside of their grasp, unfortunately due to this society.
At 9:00 you get the biased credibility talking and complaining that planes goes over mountains terrain… most funny complaint ever… what are planes??? Submarines??? Trucks?? Cars??? Later he will complain that his airbus, boeing don’t sail or drive in paved roads……
The self called expert forget something… this is a team game!!! Even if your WR is 80% go to bad team you will loose to the other team!!! His way of speaking talks more of individuality than teamplay…. and to counter cv with AA you need to play as team… if you go to do YOLOS it obvious that cv will target…..
During the ranked last week, I met a FDR in my kremlin (with all my AA destroyed by a sneaky thunderer)
I ate 45k dmg with 2 bombers drops, and 3 fires.
Fun and engaging
Just dodge lmao.
This is a joke, please don’t crucify me.
Yeah, FDR is just beyond broken….but do NOT base the balance of the intire class around one ship 🙂
@Emp Of course not. I find other cvs (except MvR with sonic-speed planes and lolAPDB) annoying but not extremely broken as FDR.
now i am in ranked with FDR… while it can deal a lot of damage, it can’t make me top 1, so I don’t even play CV in ranked anymore, because you will be guaranteed lose star even if you deal a lot of damage.
I did 205k damage in ranked just 30 minutes ago, and I am on the 5th place…
I wouldn’t mind if they brought back the old def AA that when activated would put the attacking planes in panic mode and would cause their bombs or torpedoes to be less accurate when dropped
sure, and in return lets let cv’s deal 80k alpha
@bladeclanhalo3 No
Give cvs more plane HP
@Kevin Morada yes
Basically, it boils down to one thing – the ONLY thing WG really cares about in any of their titles, is making money – if their spreadsheet shows that more players are playing CV’s post-rework – and therefore spending money on playing CV’s – and buying premium CV’s – then in their eyes the CV rework is a great success – and nothing else matters.
You can argue all the other reasons till you’re blue in the face, but WG makes changes to this game based on their bank account.
@Jack Hides CV players should want balance too. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t done huge damage, because it is all FREE damage. No risk damage has no place in a PvP setting. How would you like it if they added a new class: Modern Missile Cruiser with satellite spotting support. This class is simply a CV killer, it sits in the back, 1 second into the war launches a missile that 100% of the time hits the CV. Within the first minute the CV is dead. And btw, the missile cruiser takes no damage, nor does he risk anything. I’m sure you’ll be ok with that right?
I can only speak personally, but WG are losing money from people like me. I was so close to buying a Bayard as a bit of a challenge, but just before I hit Buy, the reviews started coming out about the recently added CVs. After seeing a few of those I realized a Bayard was never going to survive any encounter with them and I didn’t see the point on spending a lot of money just to be blindly chased around the map by rocket planes. No sale. And since everything I tried in the tech tree was also negated by the CVs, there seemed to be no point to keeping Premium, so that got dropped as well.
But I would argue that a company can fail hard in the long run with this kind of thinking.
My girlfriend just started a start up business and studied marketing etc. , and when I tell her about the WG tactics from time to time – like puerto rico or the santa containers – she often laughs and says: “Sure they milk their custumors. But as a company you have a choice: Milk the money agressively as long as its possible or create a product that will lead to a healthy community and thankful custumors” –
different tactics. Because pissing of all non cv players cant be good in the long run….
Correct me if Im wrong, but personally the game isnt the same after the rework. CVS before the rework were insane, but they appeared 1/10 games, and you could counter them in a super aa build mino or DM.
@Jack Hides It IS a business, and if they balanced the class they would have MANY MANY MANY more players and profits. The point of the vid is that the CV being a free-casting, no-risk, wimp class is that it makes the game a joke instead of serious PvP. The game has much potential if they would just fix it. If you never found an issue when playing DD you are either one of the rare super players, or you are not doing your job as a DD. Yeah if you sit back and be a potato and not help your team or do your job as a DD you can avoid some CV attacks, enjoy lots of losses. But realize, just because you are a terrible DD player doesn’t mean the problem goes away, do you think just because you run and hide from CVs that the CV isn’t still free-casting with no risk somewhere else on the map? No, essentially you’ve let the CV completely neutralize you without even having to kill you, all the while he is instantly killing a DD teammate of yours 30 seconds later. That doesn’t solve the problem.
@Steve Peterson Don’t know if it’s true or not but I was talking with someone the other day. they said “FUCK WG..you can get naval battles in Warthunder and if that’s all you wanna play so be it.” I keep pointing out to people..actually LOOK at the goddamn number of players online, on the server at any given time. Here’s the True clue. The NA Server? averages 12-15000 players at any one time. and on weekends hits 20000 or there abouts. There are waaaay more than 15-20k gamers in the US ALONE. The 15-20k on at any one time? Is counting the people who live in central/south america, mexico, canada, europe and asia ie all over the fucking WORLD that play on the NA server. How many of the CC’s in other countries spend the vast majority of their time on the NA server. I don’t know exactly but ALL of the ones I watch do. They also spend time on EU…but…
Same person who told me to come to warthunder say Warthunder doubles or triples that number in number of players on at any one time. How many servers does Warthunder have?
Oh fun. Two FDR’s logged in and got to try to out farm each other while 22 other people watched.
One thing that I find weird is that a surface ship has to dedicate both captain skills and modules towards AA to prepare for an enemy they might not even face in battle.
Furthermore, equipping these modules/skills makes the surface ship objectively worse when facing other surface ships.
The CV on the other hand will always go up against surface ships and thus benefit from their skills/modules every match.
The only way you can guarantee the benefits of the AA skills and modules is to join a platoon with a CV.
@Mthammere2010 I don’t play American BB that often now that’s why they still have AA builds and I don’t want to pay to respec maybe I will in captain skill rework I run survivability on BBs because I find that I always get way more problems from HE spammers than I do from CV. That’s just my preference.
Plus, even if you get a CV battle he can just avoid you and make your build useless that way.
@landochabod7 so you suggest having both skills equipped but dfaa is automatic when cv in game and hydro when not, not a bad idea, would like dfaa to be stronger though
@Richard Neeley Imho Def AA is fine: it’s s huge buff to the continuous damage and it makes flak much deadlier, as well.
It doesn’t send the planes into panic mode (dropping with less accuracy) but when I play CV I do notice it, and generally I’ll abort the attack.
I think they should’ve kept the 3rd slot AA module as if was about a year ago: 2 more flak bursts, which at high tiers would create a wall of flak very hard to work around.
So seperate skill tree that you can switch too before the battle or have the ability to choose which ship your going to use for that match relative to tier that you sign up for
I whole heartedly agree CV’s just need to be rebalanced. I can easily see that new players don’t even know how to deal with a CV let alone know what’s going on, such as being spotted. Also CV’s right now in the game at like a flying cruiser with everything a cruiser can do from point blank that after they are done can just spawn another one. Also the AA auto dmg is literally as if everyone in the game had no control of any of their guns and fought with them as if they were secondaries! that’s literally what is going on! They need to be rebalanced since they are most likely going to be staying in the game no matter what anyone says and now that subs will be coming in I fear the game will be dying very soon since obviously they will keep putting these classes in the game that have multiple roles. A sub can cap, deal dmg, spot and set up a crossfire. Anyways I could go on forever and making overpowered ships LIKE THE FDR which is a CV is still WORSE than selling and ARP Yamato, Because that FDR Can change the entire match by a skilled player which is normally the people who get it for steel… while just loosing one tier 10 BB in a game doesn’t compare at ALL! This needs to be fixed!! By the way with CVs such a big deal in wows why the F does world of tanks not have land based planes…? they could put AA trucks and crap in that game and give tanks a guy with an automatic machine gun on the tank that’s practically the same F’ING thing they gave to us in wows! Ok I will stop ranting but I do FULLY AGREE!
Implement operating radius for aircraft. Limit the “range” of CVs.
Thats actually the best, non braindead idea I have heard about CVs! That would make the rounds more spicey for both parts (CV and not CV).
range doesnt make sense, what would make sense is flight time. planes had to plan attacks out based on their fuel usage why not in wows? give your squadron a fuel gauge, if they go past their “point of no return” obviously those planes are lost but you can still attack with them until you run out of fuel completely.
I had posted similar suggestions under a comparable video from Searlord Mountbatton. For the die-hard fans of so called realism, I had also suggested that CV’s should have at least 2km more detection radius than any BB because of their incredible real-life size, and that their detectability radius should increase when launching a squadron, similar to a surface ship shooting.
Alternatively they could have to be at a minimum drive speed to launch a squadron just like a real aircraft carrier needs to be at cruising speed to launch aircrafts because catapults are not capable to launch them while stationary.
All that to force CV’s to behave more like ships and to allow the other players to actively fight the CV from time to time instead of having to rely on PVE like AA to reduce the amount of salvos that the CV can land per strike.
As a CV player i could get on aboard with this idea, at a minimum it would stop some CV players sending there CV to the far corner of the map.
what if islands had strong AA?
I think cvs should have their own game mode if people like playing them so much so I can play my none AA ship on my game mode, and they on their own.
“YEAR OF THE CV” they actually did it : (
in a semi-recent jingles video, he sasid something that really resonated with me: I never thought a video game could make me angrier than artillery does… until the cv rework happened.
I would just like somthing simple like a option to be in a CV match or not .This would be really interesting to actually to see what the community think as a whole . I have a feeling the que times for cv matches will be long as I feel they take away more from the game than they give.
Well, i’ts simple, when a ship class are NOT in official games tournament, you know there is a problem with this class.
As expected you do make valid points here. I have something to say myself and if you guys reading this need to know my credentials look up my account on wows numbers on the EU server, i am not the best player but above average and i have played the game since CBT and i tried both the old and new CVs.
While i do agree with many of your points in my mind you still ignore the single biggest problem this game faces when it comes to balancing the game: WG themselves.
They implemented CVs and they will most likely implements submarines wether the players like it or not. And they can allow themselves to do that because there will be people whaling for them for the next years that make the game financially viable no matter the state of balance. Sure, it will eventually die if they don’t wake up but we haven’t reached this point as of yet. And the fact that individual people are still willing to spend thousands of dollars every year on the game puts WG in a tight spot. They of course are hugely interested in keeping these players in the game over the hundred or so other players that don’t spend money on the game or buy premium once a year that one whale makes up for. And now theres a sad truth that we have to be aware of: the whales are usually not that good at the game. I have seen so many bad players with a 300 PR or lower that own 40+ premium ships and have thousands of battles played. Or just look at the ARP Yamato. How many players have you seen that have below 100 matches played but own a 140 dollar premium T10 ship? This is less of a CV problem than it is a general problem with WG preferring making a quick buck over making long term profit with their games, maybe even because they know their games are already dying because they overdid it.
To come back to the CV point though: sure they are for the most part easier to play and get decent at than most other ship classes are and that might be by design. Back in the RTS CV days you really respected the good CV players because let’s face it, RTS games with their multi tasking aren’t for everyone and a player had to be pretty good to play CVs on a high level and actually strike the enemy while defending his own team from the enemy CV like you said in the video. After the rework playing CVs has become different to say the least. AA isn’t that big of a threat anymore, especially after they nerfed the defensive AA consumable and being deplaned is theoretically impossible now, though you can still be crippled if you waste your planes. On the other hand the damage a CV deals has mostly remained the same over the entire match. Back in the day a CV could pretty much kill any DD he liked in one single attack run using all of his attack squadrons because he could use them all at once which makes a huge difference because it didn’t give the poor player who was the CVs target the chance to repair, group up with his team mates or receive fighter cover from his CV because he was dead in one single strike. Sure, the downtime of the RTS CV was a lot higher after using all of his squadrons on one single strike but it was devastating for the targeted player and more than it is now. Except maybe when the FDR strikes you nowadays, that brings back memories, and not the good ones. Over all old CVs were a lot more powerful but harder to play.
And that brings me back to the player skill as a factor in game balancing. WG wants to earn money and they mostly do make that money from quite a few players which they have to keep sweet. And what do players like about playing pvp video games? Dominating the game and feeling good about themselves. So WG needs to give the paying player enough power so that he feels like the game is worth his time and money. And when the player happens to be pretty bad at the game WG has to give him tools to still feel like he is dominating. And one of those tools was the CV rework, which made the class more approchable and easy to play. I don’t like to think that way but we sadly have to face the fact that WG doesn’t care about the game as much as we players do and their infamous spread sheet balancing is the perfect way for them to keep the game in a playable state without wasting any ressources on balancing that can be used to make new premium ships or new ship classes that will make them a lot of money.
Now i also wanted to share two things that i think can help balance CVs a bit. Firstly i would remove the ability to pre drop to conserve planes, just make the empty planes follow the squadron and let them be in danger of being shot down. That should make deplaning the CV a bit more possible. And the second thing i would like to see changed is the fighter counter play. Fighters need to be quicker in deployment and the consumable needs to be available more often. CVs need to be able to protect their own team mates again.
Played a few matches without cv’s the other day. Best and most fun matches I’ve had in a long time. Everyone else in the matches, were extremely happy as well.