Let’s have a chat…
I remember very vividly when the RN BBs were in testing and iChase made a video about Conqueror being OP and get hated on but when Flamu made a video with the same point, people suddenly agrees even though iChase gave an equal point. It’s unfortunate but the community at times lacks respect for others.
+James Henderson And i guess the same does not go for Flamu in this case? For someone to be told that they´re cocky, you have to engage your team in a way that is disturbing the game for others already. And no its not toxic, you dont know what being toxic means.
Mehmet Sarp that’s basically the same thing Khabarovsk is absurdly OP and physics defying, It’s also awful to play against Saipan is extremely OP at Tier 7, if you’re in a Ranger or Hiryu, and you’re matched against a Saipan, it’s pretty much auto-GG, unless the Saipan player is an infantile retard
+Mehmet Sarp He called her broken, which is pretty much the same as unbalanced/overpowered, which is still up for debate, the ship is broken still, a little less than it was but the changes tehy made didnt even touch the surface imo.
+Mehmet Sarp Yes he did, and asked WG to nerf the Conq.
If it isn’t flamu’s viewpoint then most don’t consider it valid. Maybe flamu should be banned from making WoWS comment for 2 patches to see if his sheep can actually come up with their own opinion.
Thanks for this iChase
Edit: *First game after I watch the video* Is that iChase? Great, I can thank him personally!
My ship jesus is Yuro
I see you’re a ship of culture as well
Same. Yuro is my jesus
Same. My most frequent WoWS youtubers are Stuntman9630 (for his ship stat previews) and Yuro, whenever he posts (for the lulz). Don’t really care about *anyone* else. Admittedly iChase’s Know Your Ships is an interesting series.
Oh boy ichase, i hope the people that are ignorant dont attack you for this, preach the truth some more. Im enjoying the truthful salt that nobody wants to hear, because they are too narrow minded. Good luck buddy youre my fav WoWS CC
Well said IChase. I don’t have just one CC I watch. I watch a few for the opinions, game play style, and what not. It makes a better player to be exposed to more ways to play a ship. I may be real bad, but at least I try.
The willingness to want to improve is a rare quality. This alone puts you in the top 10% of players regardless of your win rate. Keep it up!
Do or do not, there is no try. Yes, seriously.
Same here, I follow iChase (obviously, since I’m here), Cpt_Rye, Jingles, Notser and even Femenennely (or however you spell the name) for her outstanding CV gameplay, tried to learn a few things from her. Flamu indeed is one hell of a player, arguably one of the best out there, but he isn’t without flaws either, like we all, he does make mistakes just like everybody else. But what I really dislike, from anybody, is arrogance, or what’s worse; narcissism. Not a fan of degrading other people needlessly, either, one can call out someone for their mistakes, but that can be done in a constructive way, rather than just going all out “You’re fucking shit!”…:)
I watch Jingles for entertainment, and others for specific reviews on specific ships. But overall I prefer the “warship’s podcast” I don’t always agree with their opinions specifically regarding German Cruisers, but I like them the best
Guess im in the same boat
Notser is a good player. People realy need to think before they speak. Thank you ichase for speak on this topic
•_Lumia Art_• In fairness, it wasn’t that Notser got something wrong, it’s the strop he through after he was corrected, and the fact he doubled down on his misinformation by posting 4 or 5 rediculous videos.
I think his reaction afterwards was unnecessary. That’s why I don’t watch him.
He’s not a bad player though.
What molochz said was true, that He double down on his mistake. thats what flare things more.
I used to watch Notser video a lot, He was entertaining I know he makes mistake on IFHE vid, and comunity backlash have been……… over the top brutal
I notice afterwards his subsuquent vid just lacking………. how do i put it, his old self ? perhaps so, maybe he shaken from the whole fiasco ?, and i feel there is less joyfull atmosphere in his recent video
“even Flambass” – are you on drugs? Glue is bad for you, hmkay. Flambass is a great entertainer!
Notser is a great player! I one day dream of having the abilities to tactically beach my boats the same way he does but I doubt I’ll ever be good enough 🙁
I dont understand how notser is a good player…like hes statistically right up there with flamu, i just dont understand how.
Well said, iChase. Hope the community is adult enough to think about the validity of this; before lashing out?
Hope is a good thing to have… Realistically though, the issue iChase is adressing is the exact same attitude problem that, in it’s most serious form resulted in the ‘alt-right’ and ‘incel’ terrorist movements.
well avrage age of wows players ( if i am not mistaken ) is 43 , there is hope for us 😎
SonsOfLorgar Are incels and alt right really terrorist groups? They seem more like dumb memey trolly edgelords than terrorists. You don’t see alt right or incel attacks 24/7. Its not like other groups out there.
And yes I 100 percent agree with Ichase on this. Really loved his review of Alaska too.
i like ichase and notser more than flamu
Yuro is tru ship jesus
Thank you for this video iChase, it is really important.
The situation at reddit is simply sad. We all need need to step down and mind the game we love and play. We are all humans and our mistakes don’t makes more or less than no one . So, once again thanks. It is important that people remember that. Cheers.
Oh i remember Flamu making mistakes, ever since i´ve first seen his videos he´s presented himself as a really bad shot, maybe he just doenst give a damn in randoms, but i call them how i see them. Blaming American cruiser arcs when hes not able to hit pretty much anything beyond 10 km? yep thats Flamu.
Pretty sure it was Uberdanger (could be wrong) who said “Competitive players are often hyperaggressive, and thats part of what makes them very good players, it is also what makes them social cancer” again, thats Flamu, hes a very good tactician, a mediocre shot, and the biggest critic you could find while playing online, except maybe HotshotGG and Tyler1.
And in fact his Le Terrible video is a joke, you can see him randomly spamming torps, not giving a shit when he uses the reload boost, he clearly didnt like the ship and didnt care to play it before he even recorded. I saw the same once with the german CC Mootality.
And the problem with these kind of guys is that they attract all matter of the same kind of toxic lowlifes. And as long as Wargaming is not discouraging this kind of behaviour to a certain degree, im not talking about censorship, im talking about not behaving like like a piece of shit, which every normal human being amnages to do, except Flamu it seems.
Maybe, not to bash on WG in this case, but maybe they dont give a shit how the CCs and the community treat each other. After all they did something about SirFoch when he ranted about WG, but not about Flamu when he generalized and straight insulted a whole portion of the Community, namely the BB Captains.
The only reason i watch his videos is for the technical details to new ships etc, but i turn the video off as soon as he starts talking about not being able to hit and inaccuracy and whatnot, because i know hes a bad shot anyways. Generally i prefer any other video of any other CC over his, he just uploads faster and im impatient about new ships.
Good message from your end, well said. I dont think its gonna reach the crowd you´re preaching to.
I was absolutely amazed at the difference in Opinion, playstyle and result when watching Flamu and Flambass both sail Le Terrible. After Flamus video i was like: this doesnt seem too exciting. After Flambass i was like: Damn this could be great fun and REALLY frustrating for other DDs to deal with .
Hey Chase! Thanks for the plug. You hit the nail on the head with this one. We, as the community need to hold each other accountable, as well as respect different ways of thinking/approaching things. We need to keep the diversity, to keep ourselves from becoming a toxic hive mind of sorts. Well done. I await the reply from Flamu himself.
I just play the game for fun mostly, however this does seem to be an issue that not just this community has. In all honesty, people shouldn’t be ashamed to make a mistake because if we don’t then we never learn. Dumb that this kind of backlash is going to happen and I hope this video helps resolve this issue.
I believe that one problem is that Flamu had little to do with this issue; just was being used as an example. So when he woke up today, the community was already fanning the flames of “did you see what iChase said about you?” vs. “The community as a whole has a problem.” It might have been a bit more constructive to do a professional courtesy “alert” to him explaining that this wasn’t a personal attack. IMHO.
I like Notser he’s a good person and his advice on DDs is GOD
I used to subscribe to Notser but unsubscribed when I noticed he was moving across to being a salesman for wargaming also all the fake “so excited” nonsense about up and coming content or changes. It just came across as way too fake for me and I found it hard to believe him anymore. He is a good player though and I used to like his content and style, it’s just changed into something I don’t like over time.
I too used to watch Notsers streams and YT Vids but he seems to be more of a mouth piece for WG now so I unsubscribed
He doesn’t strike me as fake or a shill at all. I believe he is genuine. The problem is when he tunnel visions on himself instead of the game and ends up just another whiner only interested with himself. But again, he sometimes has good ideas and I can mostly look past the negative.
+sgthop The video is about you, in case you didnt watch it before commenting 🙂
krostouin I did.
This is to everyone
iChase’s story with another CC about the Alaska @ 7:20 reminded of how I was sooo extremely disagree with iChase about RPF when it was first shown off to public (on iChase’s Shimaception – Messing With RDF video).
Lots and lots of months later, RPF indeed ended up as no big deal overall. DDs only needs to adjust their target priorities, and with the incoming swarm of radar ships in the recent months, RPF really becomes an insignificant deal compared to it. And all those time I’ve just been thinking “Hmm yeah, maybe iChase had a point, maybe it wasn’t really a big deal afterall”.
But I could’ve nitpick iChase everyday to this day because iChase called us who disagree “sheeps”, but I chose to move on. And I chose to move on not because at the end iChase has a point, but more of because I thought
“Why the hell would I want to keep dissing iChase like that? There’s more in iChase than just someone who called us sheeps because we disagreed with him.”
Really now, everyone makes mistakes. Move on! And try to treat everyone (especially CCs) with respects!!
Trung I think that RL (not sure why people keep calling it RPF when the skill is named Radio Location) is quite significant. Maybe not end of the world significant, but up there. Yes, it’s very powerful for competitive DD builds. But even in randoms, RL almost entirely removes the ability for torp DDs to engage in stealth flanking to get good flanking torp launches. And particularly when there are fewer ships left on the map. And heaven forbid that you want to try to get around behind the enemy in a DD against a team that has a ship with RL.
IMO, RL just isn’t good for the game. There are too damned many anti-stealth DD tools in the game now. Free situational awareness. Priority targeting. Radio Location. Radar (and to a lesser degree, Hydro). Enough already.
Trung, I have to disagree. RL completely prevents a stealthy DD from trying to flank along the edge of the map, like say in the far west of the North/Northern Lights map. If you’re in a very stealthy IJN torp boat without RL around, you can get on that flank and try to get good flanking shots. But if someone has RL nearby, the very fact that you’re near the map edge means that more than likely you’re the only one out there that the RL will locate. And you’re boned.
You can spoof enemy RL, but only by being between the enemy and your team’s spotted ships. The enemy will see those ships that are already spotted and won’t be certain that there’s a DD (i.e. you) between then and the ships he can see. But get near a map border and there’s nothing behind you to spoof the enemy. Just empty space beyond the map border.
RL severely limits the actions that a located DD can take, and IMO that’s why it’s bad for the game.
RPF is still cheating
+krostouin that’s nonsense. You can rpf troll people from literally more than half way across the map. You are guessing the person using rpf is not. You can’t justify a skill that promotes forgetting common sense and map awareness while at the same time amplifying the game sense of those that have it in first place by 10 fold.
+krostouin RPF is absolutely significant. Not game breaking, but gives you quite significant intel. Who needs to kill you, just the fact that they know you are there is already good enough.
inb4 salty flamu fans flood the comment sections in a holy crusade to defend there lord and savior flamu
but in all seriousness, Ichase does have a lot of good points here especially on how the community reacts to opinions that are not “Flamu approve” or “Meta approved”. Most of the WoWS community have this sheep-like mentality where they will treat the word of the highly skilled players like Flamu like it was the word of god itself, now i am not doubting Flamu skill as a player he is no doubt one of the best players who is a CC but he can still make mistakes, he can still be wrong and when that stuff happens everyone is well within there rights to call him out on it and correct him. unfortunately these days many people will view this as an attack and will just hurl abuse at the “heretic” if you get what I mean cause to them Flamu can do no wrong despite the fact he still makes his fair share of mistakes cause they literally view him as the god of WoWS. it also doesn’t help that Flamu seems to have this ginormous ego that has been fuel by this quasi-worship he keeps getting from his fanbase
And it worse when it comes to how people view the meta, its gotten to the point that the current meta is being treated like some golden calf. no seriously if you don’t run concealment, max secondary (KM BB) or max AA builds on everything your consider some sort of heretic or untouchable cause you dare decided to do something that wasn’t considered meta. seriously I dare you to announce in chat that you are running a non-meta build cause if you do god help you as people are going to non-stop hurl shit at you even if you are having the game of your life or are carrying the team.
in short what i’m saying is that at this point in time the WoWS community is no longer a community, its becoming a bunch of quasi relgions jostling for domminice.
now then if you can excuse i’m going to hide in this bunker and weather the shitstorm this comment is going to cause
I Hope you get through this alive ( giggling at your last sentence ) People seam to forget that this is a Game and is to be Fun .. I hope you have a lovely day and a Huge Blast in game . ( when you escape from your bunker 😉 )
Every game I’ve ever been in with Flamu on my team… I’ve beaten his score XD
Flamu is up there among the best players, but he is certainly not THE best. I know a handful of players personally who are so ridiculously good, that Flamu’s positioning and such will seem like that of a noob in their eyes. Again, I’m not trying to discredit Flamu – one does not need to be THE best to be a good CC. But not everybody sees it this way: less experienced players see Flamu and often assume he’s the best there is, because he is better than them. And they form this cult around Flamu, much like the cult around Apple. They glorify his rights and neglects his wrongs, while doing the complete opposite with any other CC. Watch Louis Rossmann and you will understand the Apple comparison. Let me be very clear – Flamu is not personally responsible for this cult. But if you watch Evan Hadfield’s Rare Earth series, you will know that, there will be people who say “hey I completely agree with you, …”, then immediately following it up with their own skewed interpretation of what you said. And if you are not there to correct them, their interpretation will start to be understood as your own. In my opinion Flamu has been lacking on this aspect. I’m sure he means no harm to other CCs and other notable people in the community like event organizers and such. When he makes a somewhat cynical joke, I’m sure he never meant to have it taken seriously. There are people sly on the mouth but good in the heart and that’s perfectly fine. But I doubt if that’s ever understood by his cult. They ellaborate on his speech, making it seem that he is genuinely being mean and noxious. This type of misunderstanding is sad, but normal and expected on the internet. However Flamu is never there to say, “hey that’s not what I meant!”, and that breeds the cult even further down their own dissolution of reality. And since many of them believe Flamu is the best there is, justification for being rude and disrespectful to other CCs for their level of play is provided. Again, if you’re not there to stop it, such speech and behavior will start to be seen as your own. And hence I don’t think Flamu is 100% guilt-free of his cult and their behavior. That’s all from me today. If Flamu happens to read this, please allow to me make a suggestion: I’m sure you respect other CCs and notable figures in the community from your heart. You wouldn’t have come this far without. So please, make some display of this respect in the public, and make it clear and explicit, so that your cult can’t see it as sarcasm and salt. Your cult isn’t helping you, and there comes a point where you should say: “this has to stop”. A community whose members share a culture of respect is always better than one that does not.
Something in this comment that I think you intended to be a relatively minor point is actually one of the things that is quite dangerous to keep with you as you elevate your gameplay, and ultimately is one of the precursors to this entire issues. And that’s “skill”
Specifically, it’s the idea that there’s something beyond the highest elevation that one can possibly reach. As if someone who knows and understands all that there is to know, and knows all the right choices to make. As far as the definition of “skill” takes you, then you can easily classify hundreds of players, flamu included, as the best players in the game. But obviously this isn’t the case. As you’ve claimed, some people are to flamu as what flamu is to the average player, but that’s both incorrect, and impossible, especially in this game.
I have not seen any published results that can definitively quantify the “skill” of any number of players, especially high level players, not because it hasn’t been done yet, but because this game is not set up to respond to player skill. There exists no metric, automatic or even an actual scientific test, that can actually place one high level player over another, because at that ceiling, the idea of “skill” stops making sense.
What someone like flamus is to the average player, is separated by mostly a skill barrier. But what another high level player is to flamu, is separated not by a skill barrier, but by a fine, thin layer of game response. Just as we graph players onto a spectrum of “skill”, you would graph the highest level players onto a spectrum of game response, which is more like a random variable that places everyone for you. Since it doesn’t even out for everyone, but is instead distributed in a weighted fraction of people around the middle, with a predicted 38% of the total players at that level being on the favored and unfavored ends of that spectrum, you still have performance variation, even among players that ultimately have the same “skill”, creating the illusion that there is actually a skill difference.
This inescapable consequence of statistics based on fundamentally bad game design, especially when it makes up the foundation of how the game even functions, is also part of a foundation of what drives player toxicity in the first place. But it’s sad that many people don’t understand it, and spread it. The idea that there is a “best player” in any game, especially one as broken as this, makes absolutely no sense, not like the same way that there is a worst player. We need to kill this myth so people can better understand what being a good player actually means.
really well written
+Xanzu Vohhenji can you specify the “game response” concept? I need further explaination.
@TrungVN the purpdonkey: You see, it is a specific set of skills… 😉
Flamu’s cult honestly got pretty cancerous real quick these days. Once they told me to fuck myself in the ass with a giant dildo just because I told them to stop focusing on other’s mistake and look at our own’s. Man that escalated quickly.
Let me just get some popcorn while reading the comment section..
while i agree almost 100% with iChase opinion, i still think iChase need to point out about why much people make flamu like jesus. his guide, how he said detailed mistakes, plan, and mechanic is very easy & straightforward to understand. Much people think still the best competitive skill guide is from flamu, thats why some people treat him like jesus, i think. But don’t get me wrong, i also agree that make flamu like jesus is very wrong. Anyway i just want to point out that this video to me have almost everything right and good thing to spread, but i think lack of balance and maybe from flamu fan perspective this video is like harrasment to flamu (which is actually not) but just like i said, lack of ballance, and unnecessary angry tone.
I mean, if you go to Flamu for mechanical guide, that’s like going to Yuro for competitive build guide. Flamu only knows minimal game mechanic, he gives away some “guides” to build certain ships around which is admitedly, pretty good and covers alot of how to squeeze a ship’s power effectively and that’s it, he’s definitely should not be taken seriously when it is about: 1. New ships viability in competitive game mode (he was dead wrong with Worchester, Minotaur, and Radar Yueyang) 2. Skill rework/new skills (RPF misanalysis) 3. Ranked ship recommendation (He seriously thought Fubuki gonna be the best t6 ranked DD when the meta was formed by Hatsuharu)
Hmm, Intresting vid…
What’s funny is Flamu is also aware of his mistakes and he works on improving, it’s just the community refuses to see it.
I love Flamu’s video’s. But I also love yours, The *Mighty Jingles* v and (almost) all the others vids.
And I will say the Alabama Review was the first Flamu vid I had Ever scene and I had thought he was a dombass back then.
Now this isn’t a Flamu bash or anything, for example,
I disagree with your Cleveland review,
I disagree with Notsers Alaska Pan Asian DD reviews,
I disagree with Flamu”s Alabama and the most recents Colorado review,
One of the ways I look at it is-
Jingles: The basics guide
IChase:Overall classes guide
Flamu: Individual ship Guide,
Notser: laid back DD Guide
Zoup: a Reviewer who makes laid back respectful vids.
Fem: CV guides 2
Yuro: *TORPEDO BEATS*
Arilous: Yuro backup.
Keep up the vids man!
pfft, jingles:the guy that has no idea about rank/competitive play but feels very comfortable being stupidly toxic towards players that do. i watched ONE of his ranked battle replay commentary and decided to just blacklist this CC
I agree Admiral, when I was first watching Flamu I thought, what a fucking dick and stopped watching him for a long time because I was sick of his arrogance and in some cases his ignorance but truth be told he is a completely different person now and I give him kudos for changing his ways and find him today to be one of the best resources for all things WoW and I take his advice to heart. To all those that refuse to grow up they can kiss my ass!
This is why I prefer watching him stream. He explains more of what he’s doing, rather than the replay’s he cherry picks.
(that said, I also cherry pick my vids buuuuuut).
+MoRal微瘋 if you enjoy ranked, comparative, whatever play that’s fine. A lot of the player base doesn’t.all about preferences at the end of the day.
Roon sandpie is forgotten, feelsbadman
Also Arlios only as Yuri’s backup PepeHands
And now everyone in this comment section is shitting on flamu. That was not the point of the video. It was to not tread flamu like some higher beeing, that he is not. Flamu makes mistakes too. Most of the time he calls himself out on them and even makes fun of himself. He is not a bad person, nor is Notser or NoZoup or chase or strangers or Aeroon. They are all just people, who are allowed to make mistakes.
They are doing exactly what they accuse Flamu fanbois of doing.
But the start of this was iChase choosing to single out Flamu for detailed attention and criticism. Wanted to whip up his own retaliatory shitstorm, while dressing it up as “to improve the community.” Depressing and childish. Bad memories of the Graf Zeppelin fiasco last uear.
james…you cant be serious, no one in the WG CC program across all games, has the same cult following flamu has.
+Alan Vochinsky I’m not defending any Flamu fanboi behaviour. That is deserving of condemnation. I’m pointing out the obvious in this comments section – there is a serious amount of dogpiling on Flamu here, exactly what iChase claimed to be against. And you have to be kidding if you say it isn’t so…just scroll up and down the comments.
This mob isn’t behaving any better than Flamu’s – just smaller and more sanctimonious.
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *