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For me if you put something on sale for real money then balance it first. If you get it wrong and want to weaken it – tier, nerf whatever then offer a real money refund. Equally would be quite happy if they said competitive (certainly ranked, clan possible can stay as is) was silver ship only.
+Indy TLR IKR! I do not recall Notser complaining about the GC during the testing period, strange that!
Totally agree with competitive being silver ships only. I don’t do competitive, but I could totally see other players getting frustrated if they’re losing game to a premium that clearly carried. T7 ranked Belfast = OP. T8 random battle Belfast = a Cleveland w/ smoke and slightly worse armor. T7 random battle Belfast = depends on captain.
Only if there is a sliding, prorated option. If I get all my money back with a trade in, do they take back the xp, cap xp, and everything else I have earned with it? Seems fair if thats what you really want.
+DysphoricSmile he did…he was against the move to T6…and he was against GC at release to..since he and several other CCs did tell WG that it was to strong for T5…WG released her at T5 anyway.
That would be okay by me, although it pretty much amounts to an admission of guild on WG’s part.
If they did what they planned to Giulio no Premium ship would be safe which we payed for what it is, not so that later they weaken it . :3
Even without directly nerfing the ship, they already manage to nerf them indirectly by changing the meta or the game mechanic. For example, the whole point of the Gremmy was stealth firing. Then they changed the game mechanic so that it is no longer possible to stealth fire. That removed a big chunk of what was OP with the ship. Kutusov has a huge penalty shooting in smoke compared to other ships with even larger caliber which makes no sense. The power creep with new comer ships is also an indirect nerf of the old premiums.
Wg have nerfed premiums in the past. Remember when the Atago first came out? Players who did not have it started crying. So they nerfed it and made it terrible. Then later on they realized they had gone too far and then gave it a heal. It is still a bad ship.
Notser its not about having overpowered ships being good, its about them not releasing an overpowered ship in the first place with the intention of nerfing them later
Re-watch his Review he has a different opinion there.
+FreeQuest i know he does but i disagree
+Joe I do agree with you Joe I was illustrating how Notser is basically a company yes man. Not that I mind to much I do still enjoy his content even though no matter what WG say it will always be positive from him (: O well.
Is it believed that WG intended to release an OP and intended to nerf it or was it community feedback that necessitated the change?
WG sold the balance to player for money, they can buy the balance back with money.
+Takru The points is they should not sell the shifted balance for money, and do whatever they like while keeping the money. That is a serious business conduct problem WG should be aware of long before people giving them “feedbacks”.
+Takru I like the compensation with steel option. Not a lot of people have the free time and experience to grind for the steel needed to get those kinds of premiums.
More options is also a good option.
And ONLY with monetary refunds!!!
I doubt WG has that much liquid cash on hand. They’re certainly not going to go into debt to fix their game.
I feel like they made the right decision. I was VERY vocal in the forums with my objection to the proposed change. It had nothing to do with having and OP ship…..I have had the GC since it came out and have 54 battles in it. I do not play it, what I was concerned was the potential of bait and switch sales becoming the norm. If you had the top 20% of the players on the server all of the sudden do nothing but play Krasney Krems, you would be seeing threads in the forums about that Russian ship is OP and needs to be nerfed. The GC’s stats are artificially inflated because it was being used by a higher than average quality of player in ranked. If the GC was a tech tree ship and was available to the unwashed masses, its stats would be in line with every other tech tree ship because the potato players will still be potatoes when playing it.
It’s not about balance it’s about selling something a certain way and then deciding “OH we made a mistake so f you and your money we’re still changing the item you paid cash for”. Would you purchase a car with a certain engine then a year later the manufacturer deciding you had a too powerful engine and doing a mandatory recall saying you can’t have that anymore because, reasons?
The physical goods analogy is wholly unsuited given the vastly different legislation in force regarding physical Vs digital goods and transactions.
+iEarlGrey not if you want to keep us as a customer.
Also nothing is sure if such a case would reach a high enough court. Just noone will bother to do so over a bit of spare change. So the easy solution for customers is to stop spending money with companies who dare to pull such a stunt. Your choice m8
+iEarlGrey yes that’s why WG can get away with it … however we used to call it bait and switch to put it mildly.
+iEarlGrey no it actually makes perfect sense. You bought a product that is supposed to do/perform certain tasks and is better at it than similar products. That was the selling point, but now that it no longer sells the company decided (and knew from the start) it was too good at what it did and caused a shift in the market to were if you didnt have it you were at a disadvantage. But now that they have your money because they knew you would buy an overperforming thing, they think they can get away with saying “whoops I think its doing too well, lets tone it down a notch” without any repercussions. The problem is not that they need to balance it, the problem is they knew it was op from the start and decided to leave it like that because they knew people would buy it
Problem is “Soviet battleships is balanced now. In right situation can be countered.” will be their excuse.
Yeah, yet when the testers and community contributors tell them it is OP, they do not listen. And then they wonder why people complain and then they shirk their responsibility of getting it right or fixing it after the fact and blame the community…
what they CAN do is to NOT release OP ships in the first place. balance them and ONLY THEM release them.
right now the only way to make them balanced is to nerf them a bit while offering a gold refund to those unhappy with it, just like the kutuzov smoke nerf.
+fokion leile There’s no doubt the sales wouldn’t be as good but by the same token their consumers will be fully aware of what they are buying without any nasty surprises later. I think they would still get early adopters buying it though, especially if they through in a custom camo for people that buy it in the first three months.
People don’t want balanced, they want something that will dominate with less skill or makes them the elusive credits with less time.
+M H
more credits is fine, OP to the point of taking other ships in ranked is stupid…is not fine
Those over powered premium ships are the reason you have a game to play in the first place. People are not going to buy ships that are marginally better or worse then tech tree ships. And running all those servers and staffing a hundred or so people isn’t cheap and the game is free to play. So unless you would prefer a monthly subscription fee of 12-20 dollars per account you should be grateful for players that fund your game for you.
+Gary Jones yes Flamu said too buy the belfast it was OP I wish I listened.
I am happy to hear Gulio has remained as she is. I don’t have that ship but I am opposing Nerf to her because it will give precedent to wargaming to changed ships purchased with real money.
Being Dumb they could have just offered a true money back option
As opposed of some shity store coupon
a/k/a – WG reassessed their liability risk. This decision came from the lawyers, not the developers.
EXACTLY
As is should
If WG failed at balancing ships before selling them and they want to make it after being sold, it’s pretty simple the solution.
Give a refund and finally balance the game.
Otherwise it’s just a scam, even more considering they put those OP ships in loot boxes -.-
WG has some extremely dodgy business practices at best. Another example, advertising items in the premium shop with “discounts” to lure people in. However, these prices never revert back to their “real” value, because the advertised “discount” IS their real value. A permanent “discount” is no longer a discount any more.
It’s the right call. Once you start nerfing cash premium ships after the fact, the precedence for doing so can have a very damaging ripple effect for the future of the game and premium ships. Sure the CG is a good ship, but in random at least, it is far from a game changer. If I see one in a match, I don’t immediately think, it’s already all over. They burn and flood just fine. I think WG is trying here. What a miserable job of trying to have multiple lines of ships with individual personalities, play styles and characteristics with the right amount of strengths and weaknesses to be fun and competitive to play. I like the diversity and the challenge. They recently announced some nerfs to the upcoming line of soviet BBs that I think will make playing with or against them rewarding and challenging. I only hope that they don’t do any further nerfs to the Conqueror. After the last round, it is now a very balanced ship. Sure it has really good HE guns, a super heal and a deep citadel, but that is all balanced by paper thin armor, smallest HP pool of all T10s and a really long cool down on the heal. Any BB, CA or DD can burn it to the ground or cause huge alpha damage with HE. If it needs to use the super heal, and can’t then get away it is toast. It is also susceptible to plunging fire. While it can deal out HE damage, it is by far my least winningest ship. If you look at the most recent stats, since the the CVs and 8.0, it has one of the lowest win rates. That all being said, I like playing it for the challenge. If the raise the citadel, or perform other nerfs, no one, including me, will play them any more. And I for one think that diversity is crucial to this game.
couldnt agree more. GC is easily dealt with honestly. last time i was using mine, CVs prioritized me and 2 other BBs at the end of the game and i was pretty easily melted in a couple minutes. ship is strong and can really help influence things if played right but its no game changer. As for the conqurer well… personally ive never agreed with making strong HE to be a specialty for anything. HE spamming already requires so little skill to do as it is, and that ship can still easily do 10k volleys on any ship and 3 fires in one salvo. and thats the whole problem with HE is that its performance really doesnt change regardless of where you hit as the fire chance remains the same so it means it requires quite alot less skill. WoT for example with their type 5 heavies… they wouldnt pen my E75 and would still be doing a good 400 damage… rendering armor and angling skills useless as it didnt matter where he hit, he’d do damage. thats a mechanic that i respectfully, can never agree with in either of these games and wished they never introduced that as a special gimmick for brittish bbs and jap heavy tanks.
to give an idea of how bad those fires are… not long ago my missouri got 5 fires from a zao from just 2 volleys, first 2 got quenched by my repair consumable, then the other 3 RIGHT after just getting off repair going on cd. went from full health to dead in less than 2 minutes….. and that was all just from 2 volleys… just two
Once you start nerfing premiums, everything is fair game.
Balance first before release, not BAIT and SWITCH.
The item was purchased as it was advertised. GET that in you head Notser.
And if they want to change it, refund with REAL money not dubloons (with didn’t purchase dubloons with that money)
You now sounded like you’re in WG’s pocket.
You can’t balance ships across +/- 2 matchmaking , it just isn’t possible without dynamically scaling stats
Probably because “the community” has zero faith in WG and their idea of what is balanced.
Here’s the REAL reason Wargaming (WG) backed off the idea of re-tiering the Giulio Cesare: I have worked in corporations for many years with close knowledge of contracts and sales, and Wargaming is no different than any other corporation. That said, Wargaming saw (and trust me, they do read the comments from their Community Contributor’s (CC) YouTube sites) that the player base was about to either 1: not spend money within WG, 2: abandon the game altogether, 3: defame WG’s name or 4: a combination of the preceding points. WG saw that not only was it a fiscally bad idea in the long run, but they ran the (very good) risk of having a blackmark on their name, and gamers (which is YouTube’s number one watched class of videos) would have spread the word to stay away from WG like wildfire on YouTube, as well as other social media. When something goes viral on social media (good or bad) it’s almost impossible to undo. So the bottom line is WG did not want to jeopardize any money they might receive, just like any other corporation.
If I paid money for it, don’t touch it or you will not make money from me again.
It’s not that “the community doesn’t mind overpowered ships” or “the playerbase doesn’t value balance”, people want to be sure that their investment is not going to be changed with bait-and-switch tactics…
I would rather deal with 1 or 2 overpowered premium ships in the game than deal with the fact everyone’s okay with something that someone paid real money for could be impacted negatively at any time for any reason. When you start nerfing premiums you open Pandora’s box.
You can’t just sell people something and then negatively impact the experience of playing that thing without offering a CASH refund. This is literally the definition of a bait n’ switch.
This game isn’t exactly balanced in the first place, so its not like a OP premium ship especially stands out.
Good luck trying to get the actioned in real life! The only reason they have done a turn around is all the up roar from the community. WG is trying to mitigate this latest PR disaster (one amongst many recently).