IJN Destroyer Torpedoes and Torpedo Balance In World Of Warships

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So I hear you say that IJN Torpedoes SUCK and that you can’t hit anything with them and that the detection range needs buffed! But really, does it? From a game balance standpoint it’s extremely difficult to take an opinion or observation and translate that into a game balancing decision. First, WarGaming doesn’t operate that, they love their stats… second, your observations may not match with someone else’s opinion or theirs may not with someone else’s opinion and so on.

, there are caveats: The data I used only lists a torpedo hit ratio. IE: Torpedoes that hit from torpedoes that launched. To make a TRUE balancing decision you MUST know the torpedoes launched per match relative to the total hits for all ships. WG has this information and if it ever becomes available a better can be made. For now, we’ll assume (wrongly) that DD’s are launching torpedoes on cool down and that everyone is running without any captain skills or that decrease torpedo reload time (unrealistic, but saves on math :P). It also has the caveat that some ships do not use their torpedoes (or can’t) as often as others and assumes, like I said, that they are launching them on cooldown. That’s fine if the torps have enough range, but like Minsk and , neither can do this and hope to hit anything.

This analysis also ignores the effects of gunnery on the equation too, which is another factor into this. No matter how you slice it, people always want to say that USN DD’s have better torpedoes and, well, the closest they get is at T9 but that assumes the Yuugumo captain is using the stock Type 93 Mod 2’s and not the 12km Type 93 Mod 3’s that it shares with Shimakaze which do more damage.

57 Comments:

  1. Dúnadan SonoftheWest

    Only 360p?

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      +Dúnadan SonoftheWest video literally just finished uploading to YT and YT takes an hour or so to get up to full quality. It was recorded in 1080p,just YT being goofy. 🙂

  2. Damn im early

  3. “A detailed look at DD balance”
    .
    There isn’t any

  4. Akizuki TRB skews data but Kagero and Yugumo TRB don’t?

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      It does, however Kagerou, Yuugumo and Shiratsuyu don’t get TRB by default and it takes the place of smoke. Given the choice, I think most would take smoke and over the number of games played the effects of TRB are muuuuuuuuuuuch smaller than on a ship li ke Akizuki which only has a single four torpedo tube launcher.

      Like I said, this analysis is skewed overall because we have to assume the number of torps launched in a match in order to accurately compare them. Without an “Average Torpedoes Launched Per Match” stat from WG, this is as close to realistic as the stats will allow us to get. Flawed as it may be.

    • I would guess that around 30-40% of Kagero players run TRB and 40-50% of Yugumo players. It effectively adds 50% torp DPM

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      I don’t think the number of TRB Kagerou/Yuugumo players is anywhere near 30% let alone higher. Concealment is far too valuable of a thing to give it up almost entirely and run TRB. Unless WG comes out with this statistic, we wont know for sure, but my gut tells me few people even look in the smoke slot for anything other than smoke and the thought of losing it for the average player would be a death sentence.

  5. If I want to just play a dd tree focused on torpedo, should I choose kms or ijn? I am noob. I am really confused

    • I doubt a noob is going to have any tier 9 or 10s any time soon, so I’d say try Pan Asian DDs for torpedo boats if you want torpedoes that aren’t spotted from the moon.

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      MISOT – Apparently you didn’t watch the video! 😉 Or maybe you did and aren’t convinced! USN torpedoes are inferior in a lot of ways to IJN torpedoes which is fine because the USN have “better” guns for spamming the pew pew button. In terms of overall torpedo hits, the per salvo torpedo hit rates are nearly identical tier for tier and the IJN are going to be doing more damage per salvo than anyone else in the game.

      @shawn li – My recommendation is to play whichever one interests you the most. Just know that the IJN DD line is going to require A LOT from you as a player to get the most out of. It really is the line of DD’s that is a specific and challenging play style. If you are not good with torpedoes yet, then it’ll be a long hard grind. The Germans are better for this as you simply have more torps in the water with significantly lower alpha strike potential and lower number of torpedo tubes but better guns. The only other line I’d suggest is the USN line as it will teach you far more about DD play than any other line in the game. The PADD line is an unknown for me, I refuse to play new lines until several weeks after launch so it isn’t 12v12 PADD’s while I’m grinding them!

    • 7spooky i am currently at t6 usn dd and t7 soviet dd

    • Whiskey’s Gaming Lounge thanks. I think i will start with kms dd. i have only touched gunboat before

    • play Pan Asian DDs… there is no pure torp boat in this game unfortunately, at least not a line where torps are a consistent main damage dealer

  6. hey UrPeaceKeeper, a little bit off topic here, planes take dmg if they enter AOE of AA right? as if some sort of aura, just takes dmg per sec. isn’t it better if they change their AA mechanics to a bit more realistic like youre shooting ships with ur guns, the closer they are, the easier to hit, so the planes take more dmg the closer they are to ships, to discourage them to manual drop at point blank. I really hate how they balance this game.

    • well, in that case the game would end up like War Thunder with all the compicated things it bring
      the average player doesn’t even know how to angle correctly and just bow on tank, what do you think that kind of game mechanic will do to them ?
      that’s just my opinion 🙂

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      Unfortunately this is not how it works. The AA in this game uses the DPS, compares it to the aircraft’s HP and comes up with some random chance of shooting down an aircraft. Dual Purpose guns like the 5″/38 on USN ships all “tick” once every five seconds or so. Medium and Short Range AA ticks every second. The more DPS you have the more likely you are to shoot down an aircraft every second. That’s why I strongly advocate for people to take AFT before BFT if they are looking to buff their AA the most since AA range impacts how long aircraft are in their AA sphere of influence! 🙁

  7. i find the IJN DD players often forgot that they got guns, and most of them just lauch their torpedoes at the most obvious place to torp.
    funnily enough i find them incapable of putting torps into a BB 6km away, just because they launch torps at the same place as their earlier torp

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      I would agree, and yet I’m frequently told that IJN DD captains are more skilled with their torpedoes. I’d LOVE to see an average number of torpedoes launched per DD per match from WG. That stat would clarify and maybe even end this debate entirely.

    • I think the torpedo misses mostly because the average DD player doesn’t know how to torp accurately

  8. That was an awesome match. GG!

  9. Yeah, but for Gearing torps are auxiliary weapons. They also do lots of damage with their guns.

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      And yet Gearing and Shimakaze flip flop places every few weeks on Warships.today. These ships have been far more balanced than most give credit for. Part of that is the “grind” through those garbage 20km torps which I’m sure pushes Shima’s torp hit rate down, but even with them it is crazy that they have nearly identical torp hits per launch (0.75 for Shima, 0.7 for Gearing).

      Also, as I explained in the video, a USN DD gets one, maybe two knife fights a match before turning into nothing more than a torpedo boat. That’s why after the initial contact at the beginning of a match, most USN DD’s make themselves scarce just like the IJN DD’s do. The only difference is USN DD captains are used to shooting their guns at things and are more apt to use smoke offensively and learn how/when to do that. IJN DD captains are still “taught” very early on to just launch torps, never use guns.

  10. Congratulation on your solo warrior.

  11. Thought it was about time I subscribed as I’ve enjoyed and benefited greatly from your fantastic content for a long time. Then I remembered that I did indeed have a YouTube account that I never use, so here I am saying thanks and keep it coming! Your how to plays to your strat guides are some of the best vids I’ve watched. (I’m not a peacekeeper alt I swear).

  12. Interesting analysis. The way I see it, the problem with IJN DDs is not with their torpedoes per se, but the whole package. In the game, the role of DDs in general include scouting enemy, contesting caps, protecting friendly ships from enemy DDs, and dealing damage to enemy ships with either guns or torpedoes. For IJN DDs, they are good at scouting and detecting enemy DDs, but when it comes to contesting caps or actually killing enemy DDs, they are the least capable compare to other nations’ DDs. This limits the effectiveness of IJN DDs in roles that they can play. Sure they can contest caps, but if they run into US, German, or RU DD, the best they can do is to spot it and hope the team can deal damage to it. Further, to be effective in torpedo attacks, many times you need to deal with enemy DDs first. Again, the weakness of IJN DDs in this respect hurt their effectiveness. Having to depend on your teammates to kill off opposing US or RU DDs makes IJN DDs very frustrating to play at times. So, the majority of problem of IJN DDs is not the effectiveness of their torpedoes, but their ineffectiveness against other DDs.
    Also, the damage dealt by guns and torpedoes or not the same. With guns, you have much more control over whether the shells hit or not. Thus gun damage is much more consistent than torpedo damage, even with RNG involved with fires. With torpedoes being the main source of damage, sure you will have huge games if you can land them, but many times you will be unlucky and won’t land a single torp. So if you average 50K damage per game with torps over 4 games, you might have two 0 damage games plus 2 100K damage games. Whereas if you average 50K in gun damage, your games might look like 40K, 30K, 60K, 70K. It still is the same average damage, but it’s very frustrating when you have the very low damage games with your torps.
    After all that, my point is that to make IJN DDs better, they should have more viable gun systems. It doesn’t have to be on par with US or German guns, but at least they should be feared some what. Right now, if a US DD goes into close range fight with IJN one, it’s going to worry more about the torpedo threat than the gun threat from the IJN DD. With reloads in the 7-8 sec range, the DPM discrepancy is too great. At least buff gun reload to around 5.5-6 sec, slightly behind the Russians, and keep their high HE alpha and fire chance compare to other DDs. Also buff turret traverse to around 20s, so they’re actually usable.
    TL:DR, buff IJN DD guns!

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      I see what you are saying here and I agree with the intended buff. A return to the high HE alpha days for IJN guns and a turret traverse buff would be massive Quality of Life buff!

    • I can agree

      But i dunno i play my IJNs quite well

      Maybe its because i only played IJN Destroyers until toda and use them as the situazion requires

      If my team dont need me in a certain situation or if there too many enemy gunboats around (US or german destroyer) i will go out and hunt alone on my own, fighting at the one flank were rhe least allied ships are

      Trough the very low detrction range i can easily stay unspotted and get off devestating torp launches into their sides because often i even find myself behind enemy lines and can torp the dumb enemy BBs from angles theire just not expecting

      It works out for me
      I really rarely have under 60k damage
      Average should be around 85k on my i believe Tier 7 ship

    • true but… i would like to a few lines that stray from the everyday role of a capture point DD. if u wanna cap all day and night play German DDs or American or even Russian sometimes. i would like to see IJN DDs play a different role as a pure torp boat. it keeps the game from getting stale. why bother playing a new line if all your going to do is play the same role with a different nation and just “cap and repeat”

  13. Good video and great discussion topic. I think it would help that Wargaming release information on how many torpedoes are fired per game. Stats on the ship itself such as concealment and maneuverability can determine how long the ships will stay in the game and be in a position to land the successful torpedo hits.

    And gratz in advance on 5k subs :).

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      +Jeff Shapiro It would be nice to have that info but I don’t think WG is keen on releasing it. I should just PM NikoPower or Pigeon and see if they’ll divulge it.

      Thanks!

  14. Gearing and shima should not be even in torp damage though… being a torpedo boat shime SHOULD do more torp damage. Thats like saying we need to nurf khaba guns to equal shima gun dps. Shima should dwarf all torp damage done by other lines

    • P.s. all this is based on the stats u mentioned in the vid. Some ppl have no problem torping the jesus outa others in the shima

    • I think instead of nurfing ijn torps. Anti torp builds could be buffed. So if ur so worried about torps then build againts it kinda like A.A. builds

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      +Praos Crihdoe It currently does which was the point of the video! 🙂 I really believe IJN Destroyers are fine as they are and the only buffs would be turret traverse or a return to the HE alpha days.

    • thanks for the response to my rant lol, i agree with your points too. i just feel like there are too many “gun boats” and the one line that is supposed to be pure torp boat is not living up to the name and its full potential

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      Even if they remain unchanged, the strength of the IJN line will be in the high torpedo alpha. I know it is hard for some to believe, but that’s really how they are balanced out.

  15. they should buff IJN main line torps into a pure torp boat and finish the IJN “gun boat” line

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      I really think people have “jumped” onto this idea that WG has made the alternate line a “gun boat” line. I don’t think that was their intention at all. Slightly different play style, yeah ok maybe, but IMO the ships in the “main” line are better gun boats than their counterparts in the “gun boat” line. When stealth fire was in the game, a good case could be made that the split line was more gun focused because the ships could stealth fire easier, but with it gone, they really only have torpedoes, and some pretty wonky guns until you get Akizuki who is clearly a gunboat!

    • Your not wrong, but i do think because of the removal of steath fire there need to be some rebalancing and i only meant that IMO the main line should be torp boat primary and second line maybe more of a hybrid. Either way they sould finish the 2nd IJN line ?

  16. Running down the IJN line I never had a problem with the torps. They have good damage and hit like a DD ramming them. Detectability is only useful if the target is already maneuvering. If they are not there is nothing to do at the current spotting range but eat some torps. The only issue is I wish the IJN DD’s had slightly faster turrets, or ones that could spin 360. If they could keep up with the ship turning I would be a happy Destroyer captain. The guns are what are keeping the IJN from being OP.

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      I would love to see faster turret rotation on the turrets and possibly a return to the “high alpha” days of IJN DD’s just to make the ships a little bit more well rounded and far easier for the average player to play but if WG thinks they are fine, I’m inclined to agree based upon my experience playing them. They are fantastic ships!

  17. To get japse torps to work,all you have to do is this:
    Wait for a NOOB enemy team!
    and you got another noob enemy team 😀

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      Hah, that definitely makes torpedo hits easier, but I’ve hit ships that are maneuvering very aggressively with little difficulty before. It definitely helps in converting IJN DD actions to Xp! 🙂

    • i was also an japanese dd fighter over 1 year and had with minekaze alone nearly 1500 games made ,but then torps became irrelevant and useless and the only thing that counts from this point on was:
      G U N S !
      and guns alone.
      i do + – 90-110k dmg with leningrad and not with any torphit,because the torps are useless,way to slow way to shortrange and way to big concealment on my ship with nearly 8km,because concealmet is irrelevant for such gunboat im my opinion and my playstyle.
      o wait,i forgot to say:
      torps from leningrad only do 4800 up to 7800 sometimes,and never any higher values.
      i can hit a dd with 3 torps and he´s still alive,so bad are the torps.

  18. I won’t repeat what I have already said in the forum. The data is from NA server, which is also highly underestimating the existence of CVs, and therefore, signifying the lack of AA on IJN DDs, which leads to high difference in win rate and damage number between IJN DDs and USN DDs. Also if you look into 2 weeks statistic, the smoke nerf has already started to take effect in the chance of hitting torpedo on the Yugumo, now they are 6%, on par with Fletcher on US server.

    • Whiskey's Gaming Lounge

      It underestimates nothing. The data has games with and without CV’s in them, with and without radar cruisers, with and without hydro BB’s. The whole data set is far more robust than any one person’s opinion is because the data set consists of tens of thousands of games in a 2 week period.

      As for the “high” difference in WR8 and Damage of IJN vs USN… well… sure… USN seems to be fairing worse than IJN DD’s in more than a few tiers:

      T7: Mahan worst WR8, worst damage, second worst Average XP (20 ahead of Akatsuki)
      T8: Benson, second worst WR8, worst average damage, and worst average XP
      T9: Fletcher is 2nd in WR8 but is only half a % higher than Yuugumo, does less damage (only 911 damage, bust still) and is second worst in avg. XP
      T10: Gearing is second worst in WR8, above Shimakaze by 0.49% (within the noise, although both being sub 50% WR8 is bad), is last in average damage, and is second worst in average XP over Shimakaze by about 114 average XP.

      I also don’t see how the “smoke nerf” impacts torpedo hit rates… do tell though.

    • Whiskey’s Gaming Lounge you can check the stats for Yugumo and Fletcher on EU and Asia server, NA players doesnt play CV as much as EU and Asia players do.

  19. Jean-Claude Schmidt

    Congratulations on your solo warrior. And I’m totaly with you about numbers that are published. It is a trend to look only at them and taking these values for absolute and not in context (note that this is not only in games, I know part of my profession is data analytics). In these values torpedoes hit ratio might also include the « self defense » aspect. Pretty sure that would change these stats knowing about average range of the

  20. Nice video! What is your favourite ship in the game? Still the New Mexico or something new?

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