Mingles with Jingles Episode 320

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In which I suggest that Electronic Arts could learn a thing or two from Games Workshop on the ignoble art of scamming your customers, and discuss the legend of German engineering superiority in World War Two.

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57 Comments:

  1. Yay jingles is back! ?

  2. It’s ep 320…yet thumbnail says its 319…

  3. So Anyways I Started Blasting

    My doctor diagnosed Jingles as the cause for my insomnia

  4. The Tiger 1 is nowhere near as slow as some people say

    • compared to shermans and T-34 it is 😉
      Also keep in mind to check speed on muddy terrain

    • At an easily attainable 43km/h on soft surfaces, it wasn’t particularly slow. When you compare it to the T-34’s and Cromwell’s, yes, it is slow, but I recall they were also prohibited from driving to their max speed due to breaking their suspension. The thing I was greatly surprised about was that the Sherman’s with HVSS upgrades were rated at 45km/h on the same surfaces (according to military testing and manuals I’ve read). As the Chieftain points out, each piece of equipment was perfect for their respective services requirements. A Sherman would have been a disaster for someone else while the T-34 would have be a disaster for others. It all comes down to what a vehicle or other piece of equipment was designed to do. The army is my speciality and I get mad when someone has a M16/AK47-74 are better. Neither are better. They are both good for their requirements.

    • it is, once the transmission breakes

    • Picolinni Tiger 1 tank drivers were also told not to turn while driving backwards.

    • Yeah the transmissions were over stressed and fragile, but it is often overlooked that it was being looked into. I can easily accept the Tiger A’s short comings as it was meant to be a break through tank where it excelled. A lot of the issues cropped up when it was pressed into roles it wasn’t meant for. Funny, that is something I’ve been seeing a lot lately…

  5. @Jingles the pile of unbuild models we proudly refer to as “the pile of shame”

  6. Jingles: Its very easy to buy models.

    Me: *looks at my 260+ kit stash*

    • Yep. I have an entire Chapter of Imperial Fists. Looking at it all laid out I dont see the models anymore I just see a huge pile of money. And then I go and add more to it.

    • Yeah, my 32’000pts worth of Word Bearers and Renegade Guard tank batallion (as in an actual batallion combat formation of two tank companies, one superheavy tank company, Mech Inf company, a HQ, Engineering & Recon company, Artillery company and an Armored Engineers company. Not the “Astra Militarum batallion” platoon sized box set) is right there too.

    • Sounds pretty similar how you buy games on sales. A hobby is a hobby I guess

    • @MinorZero my problem is all of my hobbies are expensive. As I get older they seem to increase in price as well. I was thinking about a boat just recently..then I slapped myself.

    • @David Harrell Just wait until competing in motorsport joins the list.

  7. Akazuki is such a smart cat, love her comments!

  8. About instagram: The thing is, Instagram was meant to be the sponteneous capture of a moment with your mobile phone camera. it’s in the name: insta, from “instant” and the greek suffix “-gram” meaning “something drawn”. It was not intended to be a platform for sharing carefully currated and heavily postprocessed pictures from your DSLR. Platforms such as flickr is much better suited for those kind of images, but have a much much smaller audience. So people go to the hazzle of transfering their pictures to the phone and share them on instagram instead.

    Incidently, there is a Windows 10 desktop app for Instagram (find it in windows store), and you *can* upload pictures to your IG from it, but it is by no means a peasant app to work with, quite sluggish and buggy.

    • Yep, the thing is that IG has taken its own course. I made a point of it for a while to never upload anything not taken with my phone or edited within IG itself. But now IG is all about “influencers” peddling laxative-teas and teeth whitening charcoal.

      Yeah I gave up on IG.

    • @Ty K I wouldn’t say that’s *all* instagram is about, though it is certainly a large part of it; but your block button works quite well to keep that crap out of your feed, and eventually the instagram recommend algorithm catch up and stop sending it your way. There are a large plephora of communities on IG where people share all manner of nerdy and non-mainstream stuff. Jingles mentioned miniature painting. I’m into astrophography which is also has a lively community on IG

  9. uuuum jingels the rulebooks for D&D are not realy free even the online ones, you can get the basic set (and it is REALY basic) for free but anything else is $$

  10. There’s plenty to break down in this question. It’s not just the design of the vehicles.

    There’s the whole issue of manpower. Nazi Germany had plenty of issues how it handled its manpower and the various means people used to cheat it, get their units assigned with the latest and greatest. Particularly the SS. That was a Nazi unit, a political unit, not a Heer, Wehrmacht unit to be clear.

    Then there’s the issue of the lack of material and fuel more importantly. It’s no good having 3000 Pzkpfw IV’s with the decidedly lethal 75mm gun of theirs. If you don’t have the population to make the use of that number of tanks, you must build such superior vehicles to make the use of getting the vehicles you can best fight with.

    Then again, on the naval side, I might have to argue with the old salt mining gnome here. Germany of the period could have had quite a surface fleet. The question is and always has been the co-ordination between services and wings of services. If they had the surface ships, the recon assets and the u-boats, this would have made the convoy system as much of a threat as it was a defence measure.

    If the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine were not so…. isolated, had the combined services command mechanisms could the regime in question do severe harm to the shipping. Quite severe and have taken it to the level of weeks, days away from surrender. Not just months, from memory.

    I don’t believe the Kreigsmarine could ever provide the autonomy, ownership of the Channel required to mount an invasion. At best they could have forced the greater UK islands into some sort of forced neutrality. The issue is Japan and Japan being Japan under the increasing extreme nationalists must attack the US, Commonwealth forces. To not do so is a step too far. The moment Yamato appears, the moment Pearl Harbour or another major site gets hit, is the moment that the US gets involved.

    Despite the enmity of say, the 18th century, the English speaking world would have reacted. The question is now more political. While the Japan of that era is not nominally fascist and in fact, places the Emperor and tradition at its core, the ideology behind the nationalist has some value for fascism. Not just that, the idea of the enrichment of the nation and national entity was behind the war in the Pacific, the supposed South East Asian Prosperity Sphere, actually ties well into fascist ideology. Of a racial, political group gaining wealth above and ahead of other chosen racial groups, identities.

    Once that gets triggered, there’s not a whole lot people could have done.

    It’s also worth discussing, though not here, on the rise and gradual replacement of nominal Heer, Army, units with specific political units, the SS in particular. Since the SA was taken out around 34 from memory.

    • @El Bee My typing…. isn’t the most accurate. So if I can ask for an apology for the typos, it would be most appreciated.

    • Also the forced labor and segregation of society probably didnt help. Having to dedicate resources to purge and suppress populations within the state and newly conquered lands probably added to their problems. And again, good riddance. It was a terrible philosophy driving the war machine and inhuman doctrine driving the state.

    • @There Be Game One big problem with the Surface Kriegsmarine could hurt the convoy system idea.

      Battleships are very hard to hide in close waters and any German surface group would have to pass through the North Sea (air patrols), into the Norwegian Sea and past the Faroes or Iceland. Could they have got out without being spotted? Really doubtful. If spotted, would the Home Fleet have given battle? Yes, the Home Fleet’s main job was to bottle up the Kriegsmarine. If the battlefleet contained almost all their heavy cruisers and battleships, would Britain have dropped everything else to sink this force with whatever it had to hand? Yes (5+ Battleships, 3 Carriers, Heavy Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers, Submarines and RAF Coastal Command).

      If the fleet gets past that, we are looking at a surface fleet in the mid-Atlantic, astride the convoy routes and which may or may not have significant battle damage. What next? It sinks a convoy, maybe two or three. And now it needs to refuel, rearm and repair. But it cannot. We know, from the fate of the Graf Spee, that neutral ports will repair a warship at war to seaworthiness, but not battle readiness. It might be able to refuel from neutral ports (if the ports have enough oil for a whole fleet), but can it rearm? And even if, say, Argentina has enough fuel and food and 15″ shells, how does Germany pay for it? How much foreign exchange can be used to feed the fleet while still keeping Germany’s trade partners (Sweden, Russia until 1941) happy? We can forget about resupply at sea. A 30kt Bismarck might be able to outrun the Home Fleet, an 18kt tanker from Germany cannot. The fleet pretty much has to return to an Axis port to resupply. Which means that the Royal Navy gets a second chance to sink them. And the RAF has a chance to bomb them in port.

      And, after all that, the fleet has sunk some convoys. But the Allies controlled a huge percentage of the world’s merchant fleet (Britain alone had 1/3 of all the merchants). The fleet has sunk, maybe, 150 vessels. Britain lost 2400 in the war. 150 merchants is a very high price to pay for what would most probably mean the destruction of the surface Kriegsmarine.

      To be fair, the surface vessels, just by staying in port, doomed more merchant ships than if they had sortied. With them staying in port, the Home Fleet had to stay close to the North Sea to stop them *if* they ever tried to leave. This meant that convoys went out with small escorts and were vulnerable to the u-boats. If the Kriegsmarine surface fleet had left port and been destroyed, then all those cruisers and carriers would have been freed to hunt down the u-boats.

    • ​@Rorschach617 All of that is true. It’s the reason I said it was a one time operation. Even if the Kriegsmarine was able to get more than…… 50% of the surface vessels back to port, I highly doubt they had the infrastructure to repair them all. And on top of that, we also need to consider the other aspects you mention. ammunition doesn’t just appear when you need it. You’d have to make it, load it up on a ship and get the ship out there. Where it’s vulnerable to the RN and just the RN. Nevermind what happens when the US finally joins in.

      I would also say that I never said it was going to be easy. It’s going to be extremely difficult and for it to work you would have to decoy quite a lot of British assets. It’s not going to be easy for the Kriegsmarine at all. That’s why I make the point of saying you need the system of communication, command, between the u-boat and the surface fleet and the Luftwaffe. Only when you had all of them working together does this have a hope. A very slim hope, to be clear.

      I’d also offer as a counterpoint, that the attacks on the ports, ships weren’t that effective on a whole. Consider the effort made to bring down Tirpitz. Consider the cost to disable a certain drydock. That was at the cost of an old ship and a hold full of explosives.

      As a in theatre commander, I would very much prefer to be the on the English side, Allied side even before US assistance. The systems used by the RN, RAF, Coastal Command all worked together in a way that the greater Nazi regime never did. Even with the arguments between and second tier equipment being given to Coastal Command, the priority given to Bomber Command.

    • You might enjoy a book I just read that discusses the Unterseeboot from the other side. RADM Daniel V. Gallery wrote the book U-505 about how that boat ended up as an exhibit at the Museum of Industry in Chicago.

  11. If you want a good take on German armor during WW2 watch the interview between the chieftain and the director of the German Panzermuseum. Unfortunately most of you won’t be able to watch his German videos he uploads on the museums YouTube channel.

  12. actually jingles a M3 Lee had a crew of 7 personal so you would need another 2 for accuracy
    Yeah Yeah I know I’m on my way back to the salt mines

  13. 3:43 welcome to the internet sir jingles, I’ll be your guide.

  14. Chieftain did a video on Tiger where he argues that it’s a perfectly good heavy breakthrough tank that suffered from being wedged into a combat role it was never designed for. If the Tigers had been able to be used to secure a breakthrough then spend the needed time in maintainance downtime they wouldn’t have the reputation for unreliability they do. But because they were always needed everywhere the maintainance didn’t happen, and because Albert Speer preferred to build 400 tanks instead of 300 tanks and 100 tanks worth of spares there were never enough spares.

    So they were left with a tank that was good when it worked but rarely worked.

    • Tanks are relatively easy to disable, even if their armor is effective. A Tiger with broken track links or a damaged drive sprocket is only slightly more combat effective than a T-34 shot through with a couple 88mm shells. The Tiger would’ve been great if the Germans could’ve produced and fueled enough of them. Still, this wouldn’t have fundamentally have changed the strategic outlook of the war in 1943 or later. Their window was the first 3 months of Barbarossa. Citadel proved the Red Army was more than a match for the most powerful units the Germans could assemble after they blew their second load in Case Blue. They were hoping for a 1941 result against the 1943 Red Army. I don’t think the war would’ve changed even if the Germans had 10,000 Tigers delivered from heaven in 1943.

    • There is one vital thing to consider. Take late War German Aircraft production, it was actually rising, but there was a significant problem. Fuel. Hundreds of aircraft were not delivered to front line units literally because they lacked the fuel to do so. If you build 20.000 tanks but only have fuel to operate 10,000 then what use are those extra 10,000? This was a huge part of Germanys problem, and possibly why they tried to concentrate on quality over quantity. They could probably have built more tanks and aircraft than they did, it is however doubtful that they would have had the fuel to runn those extra vehicles, as they were critically short on fuel even as far back as 1941. At the time of Barbarossa Germany had something like 6 months of fuel reserves, and even with the Ploesti Oilfields had a shortfall each month that must have made their logistics guys sweat bullets…

    • It’s one thing I have been thinking over lately. I came to two conclusions. Especially the late German WW2 tanks were big, bulky and slow because they were big and bulky. The German dogma on (tank) warfare was published by Guderian in 1937: fast moving, hard hitting. The late German tanks never fitted into that dogma. The German Wehrmacht and Waffen SS were largely built on that dogma with their Armored Divisions (Panzerdivisione). Secondary the German army was mostly built for the fast attack (Blitzkrieg). When they rolled into a defensive war later in the war Germany had to resort to WW1 tactics with hard defensive lines and fortifications. Lo and behold first the Brits in North Africa and later the Americans in Italy shattered them. In the end the Atlantikwall was largely useless as it was never used except in Normandy, where it was tested and not very effective. Basically the German Army was not built for the war they where fighting and didn’t have neither the equipment, nor the people or the tactics to be effective.

  15. Jingles: Because all the cool kids have instagrams.

    Me: Sadness nosies.

  16. William Ballangarry

    “Jinglistic” is now a term.

  17. Military attache touring production facilities in Germany noted that every worker was highly skilled, had his own station and a full set of tools for fettling parts so they fit with precision. same guy touring a US M4 factory noted that workers didn’t even have a vice. No engineering required, just assembly.
    You can see the same problem n early Tesla saloons. The rear wheel wells are made from 7 parts welded together, whereas Ford/Toyota etc.. do it with a single stamped metal part. Production engineering, the “rationalisation” of a prototype for mass production is a step the Germans neglected consistently.

    • @Malcolm Clark There are also photos that support what he was saying. The differences in production techniques is pretty marked, and meant that Germany literally could not hope to come even close to matching the US. Not that they had the fuel to run that many armoured vehicles, but that is another debate…

    • @alganhar1 I dispute nothing about production techniques only the idea of one “military attache” touring production facilities on two continents of two combatants on either side of the conflict during the mass production of American arms. Perhaps a nation or a book reference would help back up the general assertion.

    • Prisoner of the Highway

      Malcolm Clark – it’s not as far fetched as you would think. Germany in the 30’s was very open to military observers from neutral powers. They were eager to show off their
      “masterful aryan engineering”.
      Most of the modern concepts of spying and counter intelligence were started in WW2 and mostly concerned troop movements and deployments.
      The technology wasn’t all that different from WW1 to WW2. There wasn’t as much to hide until the war started.

    • @Malcolm Clark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_Smith_(officer) Just a quick google and a link to a wikipedia page, if you want to dig deeper go right ahead.

    • Everyone see the Jonathan Parshal’s speech on wartime tank production.

  18. Jingles maybe you should have said the Empire was still in the war because without the support that the rest of the commonwealth countries contributed England couldn’t have survived either.

  19. To be honest Jingles, I do think Akizuki made some very strong counter arguments here!

  20. “… no plans to actually start playing warhammer…” In a year, remember, you actually said this.

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