Vanguard Impression – World of Warships

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Checking out the Vanguard and how crazy the citadel is on the ship, I doubt this ship remains the same as previewed. Hope you have a wonderful day and I’ll catch you next time!

Tier VIII British Vanguard

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67 Comments:

  1. Can you imagine what will happen if a Kitakaze found you? You’d be reduced to a sinking pile of rubble in a minute. Even an Akizuki would shred you in no time.

  2. This is revenge for the 1920s British interference in the Soviet Revolution. What a rubbishy ship.

    • Artillery stats for a computer game made for balanced gameplay is not the best source of reference. The fact that KGV is T7 and has much weaker armour than all other of same or higher tiers is ludicrous. Only the Yamatos surpassed the KGV’s in armour belt thickness.

    • Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer

      BoFeonss – these are the exact penetration values in game – albeit under compressed ranges and ballistics. So they are incredibly relevant – why do you think people regard Zao and Republique for their artillery – with Zao having the best pen of all 203mm guns in the game and Republique with the highest pen of any battleship below 17km.
      I’m just here to state that Vanguards “Super Charged” 15inch guns are superior to Warspite and Hood 15inch – in terms of penetration.

    • I think you misunderstood me. I play that game myself. I know these stats are relevant for the game. But these stats are set to create a diverse and balanced gameplay – they are not actual stats for any of the ships in real life. So using them to argue any point regarding the in-game ships’ real life counterparts is rather redundant. But I know they are used for game choices. They are just useless to discuss the actual ship that existed.

    • Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer

      I see, and like I said “I’m just here to state that Vanguards “Super Charged” 15inch guns are superior to Warspite and Hood 15inch” – since a bunch have stated that Vanguard still has the same poor artillery as Warspite or Hood, which is not the case.

    • You are very correct in that respect and we agree. The only things that were not new on Vanguard’s guns were the outer barrels. They had been relined and the turrets basically completely reconstructed with only the lower parts with the hoists remaining more or less as they originally were. So of course These guns would be superior to anything before them.

  3. Just knowing me, i’d be a tier 8 Omaha in that thing.

  4. I want to buy the Vanguard, but while it is this bad.. My wallet stays closed.
    .. and I’m some one who bought the Mutsu, even with it’s wonky shells and terrible AA.

    • Mutsus AA is still workable when facing same tier CVs, especially if ya picked up an AA-buffing skill on her (ya should take a look at aSHITaka to get a real feeling what terrible AA means) but on the guns dispersion I have to agree that they’re very moody things indeed…

    • Waaaait wait what?

      Mutsu’s AA? What AA?

    • I always find the guns on Mutsu to be pretty good really, especially on top tier. Just be aware of the pen drop off and they don’t seem so bad.

    • Pen drop off? They would need pen to start with… They actually have about the same base pen as the Kongou class 356mm. At least Nagato they fixed that with the newer shells to create some of the best 16” guns ever.

    • Alien Marksman agree with you 100%

  5. It’s an inevitable consequence of WG’s gimmick-riddled design approach that the last BB ever built, one that had lots of lessons from the RN’s long history of ship building incorporated, is a joke. Once WG decided to lower pretty much every BB citadel (arguably to the point where the German trade off of taking higher non-citadel damage via pens but hardly ever taking a full citadel makes little sense; most BBs don’t take citadels, which probably explains why so many seem to sail around broadside to without concern) they can hardly make one with an enormous citadel and think nobody will notice or laugh at how stupid it is.
    Then there are the guns. The RN 15″ was one of the best ever built. Accurate and hard hitting. But WG’s entirely silly ‘overmatch’ gimmick makes it “weak”.
    Could go on, but what’s the point?
    TL;DR? Anyone stupid enough to pay $45 for a premium ship in this game deserves to be stiffed, lol.

    • Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer

      If you are referring to the actual shell ballistics – which are clearly “too flat” in the game (which favour German Battleships and turtleback ships – but nerf ships with All or Nothing armour – and are unable to use their immunity zones).
      Then your point makes perfect sense. Unfortunately we cant really fix shell ballistics to their intended arcs as such shells would have reached the stratosphere irl – but then again the game ceiling is pretty high so it may be fixable.

    • +Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer the game isn’t a uniform size in regards to speed (torps do like 700kmhr) range, hight and length of ships so the calculations would be completely ass up. The game is arcade at the end of the day and overarching exists for a reason and vanguard in its current state is still dogshit. It’s guns need to be way more accurate, have the longer fuse time but also keep the special HE imo.

    • Every RN tech tree ship and some RN premiums in this game is a joke.
      A mess. Gimmicked to death.
      > a LIGHT cruiser line that has no HE
      > a HE spamming BB line
      > DDs without speed boost but with US AP pen angle
      > a T7 BB with T9/10 heal with 406 mm guns
      > a T7 BB with 25x DAAF

      They will definitely screw up the CV line with gimmicks.

    • +Francisco DeTonne welcome to world of warships pleb. That’s the whole point of the game to have variety…. What do you suggest that do make all the ships the fucking same?

    • @Steve Hemmings
      No, Captain Obvious. RN CLs can have smoke and heal and I wouldn’t give a damn. But RN CLs have smoke and heal *AND* dumbshit AP that pen everywhere to compensate for not having HE (for whatever the fuck the reason is) is a fucking no-no.
      RN BBs can have super heal and 1/4 HE pen I also wouldn’t give a fuck. But RN BBs have super heal and 1/4 HE pen *AND* ridiculous fire chance and short-fused AP? That’s just bullshit.
      RN DDs can have Heal, PA smoke and 1/4 HE pen and US pen angle I would just shrug my shoulders and say ‘meh’. But *NO* Engine Boost? For a DD line?

      Which navy in-game has *THIS MANY GIMMICKS* ?
      What does the IJN or the USN or the KM or the MN have?

  6. I think they just want to recreate the destruction of the Hood. In every game. Ever. For all time.

  7. Ahhh…Vanguard… the spare parts rush job battleship.

    • Not really it was delayed repeatedly to advance technologically as the war progressed the planned Vanguard was very different to the modern Vanguard because of constant design changes after war experience

    • It was delayed because the British have difficulty in completing it.

    • jay Vee that just isn’t true the British pioneered battleship design and your statement is quite literally complete bullshit

    • Actually it is true that supply shortages delayed her completion (not really surprising when you’re building a ship during the middle of the battle of the atlantic) but then so is your point and the point of it being the Lion design but delayed due to repeated changes to the design during its construction in light of war experience…

    • +Warship Britannia . It was supposed to be a different ship. It was supposed to be HMS Lion but scrapped. Then they redesign the Lion Hull for Vanguard. For me it was quite delayed since we would have HMS Lion after KGV class instead of HMS Vanguard which was a bit delayed.

  8. Looks like a Hood and if it ends up to be the case in the end, I am so not interested

  9. The issue is less the Vanguard.
    The issue is German, French and British BBs.

    It is power creep 101: Once they had “improbable” to citadel BBs it made every BB with an actual citadel you can hit reliable rubbish.
    (Yamato at least has its guns as redeeming factor)

    I was all for lowering the citadel of the Iowa.
    The big citadel was wrong in the first place and the Iowa is sluggish which made recovering from a wrong position almost impossible.
    However I never voted for making it utterly impossible (or relying on luck) to hit the citadel of most BBs in the game at all. But now we are at that point.

    • Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer

      WG uses this formula for both WOT and WOWs
      Effective Armour Formula: (Thickness/cos(angle°))

      Proof that
      even a Yamato can citadel a Kurfurst.
      Lets assume it fires point blank at a near perfect flat arc and broadside (allowing the normalisation of the shell to penetrate the armour perfectly flat on both x and y axis).
      Yamato’s pen at 1km is 894mm of pen (at point blank its 917mm)

      Kurfurst has
      380mm Belt (0 degree inclination)
      150mm Turtleback (61 degree inclination) (worth 310mm)
      45mm Citadel (0 degree inclination)
      Totaling 735mm Armour
      Obviously 735mm < << 894mm So a Yamato should and could clearly penetrate Kurfurst's armour Even with Montana with 838mm of pen can do so as well and many other battleships with pen above 735mm of armour. But the stupidity of our game mechanics that being 60 degree autobounce and 14.3x overmatch. Means that somehow the 150mm turtleback of certain battleships inclined above 60 degrees - can deflect a 460mm round with over 800mm+ pen at point blank. By now you can already tell wows is current game mechanics makes shells bounce even if they can clearly and certainly penetrate the armour of the angled plate. Even Mikasa a T2 Battleship with a 70mm turtleback and 60+ degree inclination is only worth around 140mm of armour - so battleship calibers that still have higher pen than the armour (after penetrating the first main belt) - should be able to punch through the plate. But alas our game mechanics prevent that - so even a T2 Mikasa - has its citadel better protected than even Yamato's 410mm citadel belt, perfectly logical lol. heres the website for all sorts of information. https://wowsft.com/arty
      ranging from penetration charts of all gun calibers in wows – to even WIP ship stats.

    • Actually, most of these are vulnerable to plunging fire, making ships harder to sink at close range is a historical precedent, as the shells come in at a much flatter angle, they both don’t punch holes under the waterline, letting in water, and also don’t reach the depths of the ship where most of the magazines are usually kept.

    • Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer

      Actually underwater penetrations exist in wows (to a small degree) and no they do not cause flooding in the process (wg tried that in beta and it didnt end well). And yeah you are indeed right – most battleships in wows are incredibly vulnerable to plunging fire (especially that of Turtleback BBs that lack proper underwater belts – being highly susceptible to underwater penetrations). But alas with the ballistic compression and our game mechanics we will never *fully* see just how vulnerable most battleship are to plunging fire. But yeah underwater penetrations here and there at long range pot shots to citadel german bbs by bypassing their turtlebacks every now and then.

    • +Just_Some_Random_Tryhard_Gamer I know they exist in the game (and being the main cause British AP sucks at getting citadels), my point was the closer the rage the shallower the angle the shell, so has to pass through more water to reach the Hull than if the shell comes in at a steeper angle. (especially as shells tend to flatten out when they hit the water, so plunging shells get normalised to the armour by the water).
      Even if its not flooding damage, overall critical damage against the ship tends to decreases at close range.

    • Nanchisan Nanchisan

      For me personally, the lowering of US citadels were bad They went that way because of cries
      I’m fine with German BBs having that kind of citadel proof at close range because is where they excel and that is pretty much it Otherwise, it could be rather underwhelming for them to be the main tanks of the team and when they went for brawl, which is their point, they would end up wrecked Otherwise, Montana eats Kurfürst alive because of today camping and sniping meta because has better accuracy and such And please, buff FdG I understand that triple turrets on Kurfürst have less reload than even Repu quads for the sake of balance But Friederich the Great twins should have less reload Give them 27 secs base for 406 and then 29 for 420s and buff the sigma to 1.9 It would still be very RNG dependent but that would help her
      What has no excuse tho, are UK BB ones Those are completely retarded Is like you can’t citadel me even when full side and I still can heal half my ship right in front of ur eyes They could do something like the Nelson one, at least giving them a proper skill minimum for encouraging angling and such Or maybe even reducing the how and aft 32 mm plating To something overmatchable to all other BBs And then maybe and only maybe, getting rid of those 419s ahistorical guns and leave Lion And Conqueror with the 406s tuning down the tremendous alpha strike they have without caring about angling
      The French ones only have 2 great ships which are Lyon and Alsace, although the last got nerfed I would have gone for another way but ok WG

  10. Remember when they wanted to give the British bbs radar? lol

  11. This gun accuracy and armour is definitely not the real Vanguard, looks more like Repulse.

    • I know how to improve her, lower the dispersion to 26m, repair party heals 100% citadel damage, has long range radar that can passively detect BBs within 15km, end.

    • Thinking about it, with no other changes to the ship, that wouldn’t even be overpowered…

      26m dispersion maybe, but at the same time, they only have to change course a tiny bit and all your shells will miss because its such a small area… Besides, most of the time I can see people only being able to aim 2 turrets at a target, so that’s only 4x 15″ shells. Might be a bit OP up close against cruisers and destroyers though.

      Repair party basically treating citadel damage like fire damage wouln’t be OP with this citadel, tbh is basically required if notser can take 5 citadels from 2 salvos from a Richelieu.

      As long as its only bbs and not other ships, that’s not that bad, especially if it was blocked by mountains, so only worked in los, but could also see through smoke.

  12. It looks pretty cool, I really want to get this. But not THIS.

  13. Jesus… god forbid there is a ship that actually punishes you for bad play, and forces you to angle intelligently. There are too many ships in the current meta that support bad play and don’t get punished for it.

    • Yea, but this just looks straight up un-fun to play

    • Hear hear, just like with the introduction of radar. Hopelesly out off position? No worries, pop that skill button and voila there’s your threath. I feel myself more and more like a Usn Cruiser. Hiding like a bitch behind islands

    • Yeah but this just looks awful. Yamato can be punished but is still an excellent ship.

    • An enemy BB double citadelling you from max range, while invisible, hidden behind an island while you’re being spotted by the carrier (or dd) ISN’T bad play, that’s just the circumstance that you come across in every other game in WoWs.

      Plus there is a funking big glaring hole in your argument… “… forbid there is a ship that…”
      “a ship”, A SINGLE ship… You can’t have 1 ship that gets punished so hard, when all the others are practically invulnerable to citadel damage…
      At least you can’t make it that vulnerable to citadels AND HE spam AND torpedoes, and not have it compensated in some other way…

      Take the Yamato, it has a high citadel, but that has a 16″ belt, deck armour immune to most low-caliber HE, 2/3 of its guns forward so it can effectively bow tank, and the guns themselves that can overmatch the bow and stern plating of pretty much anything in the game.
      The Nelson is another good example of a ship with an exposed citadel, but it’s got larger than average guns for it’s tier and they’re all mounted forward with amazing arcs, its also got some of the best HE in the game, can overmatch most things it come across and has the most ridiculous heal to make up for the fact that its plating is garbage.
      Now look at the Vanguard, what does it have going for it that could make up for it being so squishy:
      Main battery? Lower than average caliber, number of guns (and only 4 facing forward), terrible gun angles, very mediocre rof (bad if you only look at the other 15″ gun armed ships), slow shells compared to the other 15″ tier 8s, okay accuracy, but sigma is only as good as NC, and that has bigger guns, and 1 more of them, and much, much better angles, so can fire all 9 when the vanguard can only fire 4…
      AA, actually looks decent, but going by historical standards, it should sit between an Iowa and a Montana, and only valid at all when there is a carrier in the game, so only for 1 in 4 games.
      Concealment, very good, but as soon as you touch the LMB it jumps to 20km, so i’ve not put much stock in that since they removed stealth firing. You can be stealthy OR do damage but not really both at the same time.
      Looks nice and fast, but at tier 8, what isn’t? It’s pretty much on par with everything else.
      Secondaries, actually something that the real vanguard should have been amazing at, since she got improved turrets for the 5.25″ guns… but they look pretty disappointing in game. And honestly, with a ship that squishy, who’s going to get within secondary range of anyone?
      Oh and HP, it’s just 1 ginormous HP pinata for the enemy team…

      Basically, not only do you get punished for bad play, you also get punished for average and even good play, and if that weren’t bad enough, there’s no good side to reward you for good play…

      Honestly, how can you be so ignorant? This stuff is just game balance 101.

    • Clearly you must not have even watched the replay.. He is detected by planes the entire time and in fact sails straight not changing course once while being 90 degrees to the whole team for 32 SECONDS. Holy shit he received a citadel?!?!

      You are a victim of the current meta where ships can sail broadside and not fear a single thing. Im not sure why your lecturing me on different ships in the game with exposed citadels? Yamato, Musashi, Nelson. Every single one of those ships is going to get punished for broadside, and even Yamato will get punished for bow tanking due to angled forward citadel.. Nelson, also is a ship that receives a crazy amount of HE spam and yes, does have a mega heal. Vanguard has the biggest HP pool of any tier 8 ship, as well as the second best BB detection only losing out to the monarch. Making the point that the ships concealment jumping to 20km after firing is irrelevant because this happens to every ship in the game. The shell velocity is decent for the tier, and is on par with the other tier 8’s for shell mass. The ship is not a brawler… clearly.

      Honestly, its not ignorance. Game balance 101 is not cookie cutting ships that reward bad play. Twice in that replay Notser is playing like a pleb and got punished. Thats all

  14. Yay Vanguard 🙂

  15. This is a old school WG design, remember when all BBs were like this and you had to use skill to stay alive? Now most bbs just sit broadside and troll you the conq being the worst of the lot, its like WG decided to troll the RN. The warspite is still the best RN BB in the game. the rest are gimmicky no skill garbage.

    • To be Fair, the Monarch is the black sheep of the line for being relatively normal as far as BB’s go

    • +Brett50 My grandfather served on HMS Howe a sister ship to KGV, It was the one ship i was waiting for in this game, to be fair I do enjoy playing it but hate having to spam HE in tier 9 games. I hated the monarch at first but made a concerted effort to grind it and found myself enjoying it so much that I want to move my captain back to it from the Lion which is frustrating as Hell to play, the AP on the lion is horrific and the HE is a shot gun, pair that with horrid turret angles and its very uncomfortable to play

  16. Notser you are a gentleman , the ship is crap and that’s it in that matter…….

  17. A BB that has nothing going for it than hiding, hmm not for me, seriously why not give it the super heal of the Nelson? So the slightly lower citadel does not change the weaknesses of the ship. Why would anyone want to play this let alone buy it. The sigma and dispersion of the salvos are tragic from max range.

  18. I do wonder how the ship even makes it this far so flawed. I mean it cant be that hard to get something to a rough balance before testing. Some ships seem to pre-enter the game crazy OP *Ahem* Stalingrad, others complete garbage. Gentle tweeks should be the testing aim, not damn near redesigns. Sad face WG. But funny you made Notser a camping HE spamming bb, and kept him away from his arch nemesis “the island”.

    • Some ships enter OP some ships enter underpowered. That’s why there is testing. They would rather start worse and slowly work their way up than start OP and work their way down. Le Terrible vs Jean Bart is an example. Le Terrible was fitting for its name…that being terrible. They then slowly buffed it to where they want it. Jean Bart on the other hand was OP and recieved nerfs. Due to these nerfs some of the playerbase found their excitement for the ship falling.

    • I understand this, I was refering to how far in either direction they can be, rather than a little bit in one direction. Surely with a little bit of thinking you can be alot closer to balanced ship and then make gentle changes. WG have numbers and stats im sure they can be a little less far off. It seems like throwing a dart at a dart board.. oh this dart fell below the board, this dart stuck in the roof. They know good and bad stats for each part.. gun velocities, penetration, turret speed, ship speed, armour, etc. When they put a ship together with every stat below everything else at that tier its a joke right? Or every stat way above everything and 3x the normal HP …

  19. Colonel David Davenport

    Unless it is fixed – I will pass – and I love most BB’s!

  20. Remember when BBs had citadels?? No way!

    Now seriously, here you display how a BB with a tall citadel sailing almost non stop completely broadside to the whole enemy team gets citadelled, who would have guessed… The perpendicular to your broadside almost always was pointing towards the bloody center of the big circle right in the middle of the map, hence towards the opponents non stop… You did deserve to get punished.

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