What to do about CVs? (with AngelicCypher) – World of Warships – Clyde Plays Fireside Chat E002

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In today’s show I discuss the state of Aircraft Carriers in World of Warships with Angelic Cypher.

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// BOOKMARKS
00:00:00 Meet Angelic Cypher
00:06:55 CVs are Here to Stay, How do we Get Comfortable with this?
00:09:58 The Role and Goals of the CV
00:12:39 How to Communicate & Collaborate with a CV
00:16:07 What is a good line to start with for a new CV player?
00:18:30 Role and Goals of the CV, the First Few Minutes of Battle
00:20:35 What to do with the CV at the start of the battle?
00:23:55 Anti-CV Divisions
00:26:54 Common Complaints about CV
00:44:42 Players Blaming other Players for Complaining About CVs
00:49:10 Remembering RTS-Mode CVs vs CVs Today
00:57:11 How often do we see CVs or 2X CVs in matches?
01:05:22 CV Attack Efficacy (Not a Scientific Analysis)
01:13:48 Average Players Versus Incredible Players
01:17:03 CV Spotting, Part 1 (What Would Cypher Change about CVs?)
01:30:58 Skill Gap Between CV Players (Then & Now)
01:40:55 Avoiding CV Damage (“CVs do too much damage!”)
01:59:05 Sharing AA Bubbles
02:02:45 AA DPS, The Three Ranges, Flak, & Fighters
02:13:13 Using Priority Sector
02:18:10 Minimap Range Rings
02:22:33 Disabling Destroyer AA to Avoid Detection
02:30:55 What is AngelicCypher’s Favorite CV?
02:34:47 CV Intentional Spotting, Incidental Spotting, & Upcoming Changes
02:45:40 Why don’t we have Manual AA?
02:48:26 Can WG Help Players Know they’re being targeted by a CV?
02:52:15 Why aren’t CVs in Clan Battles or Tournaments?
03:02:28 Outro & More about our Guest (Go follow Cypher!)

// MUSIC
The Vendetta by Stefan Kartenberg (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/JeffSpeed68/58628 Ft: Apoxode

32 Comments:

  1. @carmenmartino2825

    CVS are broken. This video is such a hard core cope

    • Hey Carmen – thanks for watching, even if it didn’t resonate with ya.

      What’s the most broken part about CV interactions in WOWS for you?

    • @prisonerofthehighway1059

      Aircraft carriers are the single item that ended ship to ship surface combat. You cannot introduce them and keep the fundamental core of the game(ship to ship combat) intact.
      You’d have to completely rework the game. A CV in a 24 player game is wildly overpowered. You’d have to double the team size to get close. And then you’d still have to change the roles of a couple of ship types.
      The base game roles are set up in a WW1 configuration. DDs scout, cruisers deal damage and BBs tank damage.
      With cv’s and subs, you need to set the game in a WW2 configuration.
      Cv’s strike, subs flank, DDs screen the fleet for subs flanking and cruisers and BBs are basically glorified AA platforms.
      If I had to try to balance them right now, then I’d go to mini map spotting only and cv damage needs to be cut by 50%

  2. So this guy is the 1% of cv players that supp there team

    • Haha, yeah, that trait is a rarity for sure. I wish more CVs were collaborative myself. The CV/Not CV dynamic isn’t particularly healthy in general in the game.

  3. well, the bit about the clanbattles at the end is a good summary. CVs mostly throw out skillchecks.
    if you are skilled, CVs arent really a threat, you see them coming from 10km away and their attacks are massively telegraphed where its easy to dodge most if not all their damage.
    if you arent, they come out of nowhere and hit all their torps, etc. do lots of damage and disappear again, in short: scary af.

    thnx for taking the time and trying to get some knowledge out there to help people move up into the skilled group.

    • We’re trying. Pretty sure this video will largely fall on deaf ears for some, but we thought it was worth making. Thanks for watching, Tom – always nice to get a thoughtful comment too.

    • @prisonerofthehighway1059

      Lmao. CVs are worse in clan battles, that’s why they are banned. Yeah, you saw him coming 10km away and turned into the attack and only took one torpedo. But you got dev struck across the map by a combo of Petro and Stalingrad because they’re on voice com and baited you into it.

    • @@prisonerofthehighway1059 What worries me is the lack of understanding shown here and elsewhere that as you state the CV attack is not the problem, the fire incoming on spotting is the problem from a CV that you have no chance of attacking.

  4. I was in a Kitakami, I was probably the first ship that was spotted by the CV and it killed me with two bomb drops, while I tried to evade it. Can you explain to me how that could be a fun game for me?

    • what happened to your exhaust smoke, and heal, which are other mitigation tools you had apart from just dodging? Is this a regular occurrance for you, being 2-shotted by CVs at the start of the match? Would you have been happier being hit by 22km conqueror HE citadel-dev striking you? probably not fun for a BB that got killed by 2 of your DW torps while trying to evade the other 14 either.

    • ​@@durry23 Is it possible that smoke ran out while CV fighters/bombers wait?

    • @@Cloudman572 possible, sure, but I would say unlikely. That’s a minute worth of the malta (I assume malta for AP bomblets citadelling through deck roof in order to two drop it – obviously not RU CV, USN HE bombs more likely to heal through them) hovering and waiting for the smoke to expire, and not being more efficent and sending those planes to strike another ship and come back looking later. Also a minute of not heading towards friendly AA at 38 Kts. Should have been able to see the planes maybe 10km out and have a 5km air detect window to start your pre-evasions.

  5. at this point i’m not even that concerned by 95% of CVs (only the soviets and malta really piss me off anymore), but when i’m focused down by one while i’m in the middle of getting gangbanged by an entire flank for zero reason (including the enemy sub, that one is just THE MAXIMUM FUN TIME) because i know they’re not too hard to mitigate or even avoid the damage they do. the issue is that the damage is more or less a coinflip on if it’s undodgeable or not. surface ships are easy to dodge if you’re paying attention even a marginal amount, CVs aren’t unless you are literally tunnelvisioned on the planes, which opens you up to getting sniped/farmed/torped/ what have you from across the map or behind an island or even ambushed. Subs are the same but worse, since if you’re distracted there is legitimately zero counterplay, and if they’re good enough to know how the class works, you won’t even see them or know they’re there until someone gets devstruck because they’re goddamn impossible to spot anywhere lower than the surface. The issue is that carriers are playing a fundamentally different game that warps the rest of the game around them, and the same with subs. There’s a reason WG has never allowed CVs back into clan battles post the absolute asscancer that was the T6 CV season, and subs haven’t been allowed in at all. Superships are fine because, at the end of the day, they’re still a surface ship with all the weaknesses of other surface ships. CVs and subs do not function the same, and as such are not functionally balanced for a competitive environment.

    And no, most CVs don’t try and support the team because most CV players are trying to make the funny damage number get into the 200k+ range. The spotting damage is secondary to them.

  6. as a dd main, 1 cv a match I have no problem with, it is when you have 2 cvs that they can dominate with spotting, not too mention additional hybrids. This is world of warships, not world of planes.

    • Yeah – there’s a lot of planes these days. With the new US split out, it seems every battle with 8s has two Yorktowns on each team, its really getting out of hand. Thanks for watchin’ Mark.

  7. @prisonerofthehighway1059

    I’ve played the American and IJN cv lines to T8 and the German to T6. I suck at them but I wanted to understand them. I get that you are a cv main and they give you the warm fuzzies but 95% of the players aren’t and this class is responsible for turning WoWs into the boring spawn camp that it’s become. Subs absolutely made it worse but cv’s started it. There are 2 main things that need to change to even begin balancing cv’s.

    One – Carriers do far too much damage. Especially the infamous ones like Nakimov. Musashi and Yamato took 100s of plane based weapons to sink. I shouldn’t have to choose between hiding in spawn or getting devstruck across the map because I turned into a torpedo strike. CV damage against surface ships needs to be nerfed by 50% minimum.

    Two – all cv spotting is mini map only. This new travel mode that they’re trying to implement is going to turn Nakimov into a monster. It’s going to allow unicums with autistic map memory to zip across the map at high speeds, bypassing virtually all AA, pop out on top of their target and drop the entire payload without even a scratch.
    Much like the sub changes , it’s a way to say they’re making changes without actually nerfing the protected classes.

  8. Doesn’t surprise me that a CV main does not like to watch KOTS, its static at times because its a giant chess game and one mistake can cost you the game where positioning is king. Being able to read the map and predict where ships will be and how to win is what separates the average players and the really good ones. CVs on the other hand can make mistakes by going to the wrong side and quickly at nearly 200kts go to the opposite side of the map and spot/strike. No DD, CA or BB can do the same. Players say that good players have high win rates because they are lucky but watch any top player on twitch and they can predict 3 moves ahead, most of the time correctly, whether or not a game is winnable.

    T6 CVs are a magnitude weaker than T10 CVs and the smaller maps make their spotting not as strong. If T10 clan battles had CVs again, every top team would be playing one. The spotting on large maps and the ability to go kill a low health ship that got away is way too strong. CVs are strong in rank as long as your team doesn’t rush in, imagine a CV with voice comms in CBs. I am personally glad CVs are not in CBs and probably not play CBs if they are added for a season.

    • The duality of a CV main.

      > CV prevent static game-play and island camping
      > ignores why people sit in spawn or island camp

    • For the record, I’m with you Ryan – I don’t want CVs in my clan battles either (I only watch KotS – don’t compete, so my opinion is less strong there, haha). I used to DD for my clan before we recruited some better destroyer players. When we have CVs (I’m remembering the dreaded FDR season from quite a while back) it was just awful. Simultaneously – I want players who enjoy CVs to be able to participate in competitive play – not because I want CVs in there, but because I don’t want those humans to be left out. That said, the current CV implementation just doesn’t support this – so they are rightfully not included in those modes in my estimation. I also concur that high-skill players don’t have good stats because of luck. They have good stats because they have learned how to influence games to create wins.

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    • @@ClydePlays But why are CVs not a good idea in clan/KOTS but “fine” in random/ranked?

  9. Clyde – i appreciate what you are trying to do with this, and agree that a solution that says remove CVs (like ones that say remove subs) is just never going to happen.

    fundamentally I think what a lot of people have a problem with (including me) is CV spotting – the damage they do sucks (nakhimov and malta the worst offenders, parking superships for a moment), but the issue rightly raised by many is that in dodging the CV you are open to getting annihilated by (insert overmatch BB name here) in the meantime. CVs themselves are not immune to this, much as i do enjoy watching vermonts devstrike cvs from existence when spotted by the opposing CV.

    The other is that in combination with subs they pretty much make surface ship play miserable. I have had many games where I am being pursued by a sub whilst focused by a CV and frankly that just sucks. (PS. I would be interested in seeing the same stats that were displayed for the Asia server, because CVs to me are an even bigger issue there). It has made the passive meta worse by having the combination of the two.

    I feel like the single most impactful change they could make is mini-map only spotting. That changes the whole maneuver #justdodge dynamic, and also means for something like a DD or CL that yes, I need to use the WASD keys to deal with the CV, but in the meantime I am not getting removed off the face of the planet by every other ship shooting me because I am now spotted.

    knowing where my dd is on the minimap is still useful info for the team. Having the ability for every single person to shoot the sheit out of me because a plane went overhead – not so cool.

    • Dude – 100% agree. Dodging CV damage puts you in a nasty spot with other ships that are in your geographical area. I’m hopeful the spotting changes they’re testing in 13.1 show some promise and at least alleviate some of the concerns players have – though I don’t think any one change will be the silver bullet that changes minds universally.

      Thanks for the watch and sharing your thoughts – I appreciate it!

  10. If weegee isn;t going to fix their MM, then keep them out of competitive. We’ll see what CV 3.0 and sub 27.0 will bring but I’m not hopeful it will improve gameplay.

    • LOL, submarine 27.0. I might steel that, haha. Seriously though – I’m hopeful we get some improvements but I’m not confident they’ll get a golden ticket to competitive and tournaments – and to be fair to WG, they never said that was their goal, though it is an interesting conversation piece. Thanks for watching Mista – appreciate your comment.

  11. As soon as WG makes CVs a class that requires the same minimum level of skill and risk as other classes then I will accept them as worthy of inclusion.
    At present Cvs have the best anti sub defence and it requires zero skill, CVs have the best AA so are almost immune to worthwhile CV sniping CV. CVs as is have the best spotting and it is at zero risk to CV.
    Brawl 1 vs 1 when CVs allowed is just a sick joke, with CV auto win unless CV player has zero idea how to play.
    WG has issued ban threats to divisions of 2x Kidd and a Akizuki hunting CVs and 2 Yamato +CV divisions hunting CVs, yet no other division hunting non CV classes is ever threatened with ban.
    Statement have been made at WG/CC meeting that CVs have to have the least difference between low skill players and high skill players to ensure that enough players play them to justify the amount of effort/money WG put into the CV rework.

  12. The main CV impact on DDs,apart from the spotting, is for your perfect DD torp strike to miss when “your” CV attacks your target causing your target to change course.

  13. @stefanzijlstra5096

    I like the discussion, and there are some intelligent comments there and you 2 guys obv love the game and want to help.

    BUT 🙂

    You are adressing the wrong things….., mostly.

    example:
    o) you play a cruiser who gets a good chunk of damage from fires.
    step 1: get in gun range, step 2 spot for yourself or get some spotting by someone to put his hide out, step 3: shoot, wind the rng lottery, step 4: watch if oppo repairs, step 5: invest reload booster or long time being spotted (because shooting) ,step 6: gtfo out and survive, , step 7 rinse repeat and pray

    o) you play a cv (esp some of the “fun” ones and you do sadly not own overpowered AP bombs or rockets) and a good chunk of damage comes from fires:
    step 1: fly (you cant be seen) , step 2: see ship (only planes can be seen),. step 3: attack ship while doing the bubble dodging making sure defaa does not much (ofc), step 4: watch result of your attack /rng lottery) , step 5: fly to safety and watch him either repair (attack from safety again) or let him let it burn: step 6: burn another one

    and there are soooo many other topics like this you dont dare to touch in all of this…., you just go into that “damage per minute” stuff like WG does

  14. @stefanzijlstra5096

    and the argument “the player does nothing”…., thats the problem with “battle impact even by moronic cv players”, because the player turns to avoid CV and then gets broadsided by all the other for whom you inadverntently spot…., this discussion turns bad as of this point

  15. @stefanzijlstra5096

    and “clustering” just loses games, so what you are saying is: “when I am in the game, noone plays the game, all play *hide from cv or be fucked”…., isnt there something wrong about this=?

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