Why Reworking CVs in World of Warships is Complicated

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Been away lately to deal with some stuff in real life, but I’ve kept up with the discussions on CVs and I want to offer my thoughts 🙂

Music by: Give No Quarter by shan5481#1538 on my Discord 🙂

70 Comments:

  1. I would just remove aircrafft carriers entirely. They are an awkward gameplay feature which doesnt interact well with the rest of the organic gameplay.

    • And from now on you just call it world of Battleships. CV´s are an essential part of the Navy timeframe chosen for this game. Take CV´s out and you might just get rid of the game because one important part would just be gone … no joy.

    • i am not complaning about dds dds are fine but bbs need a big fucking nerf

    • By that reasoning, they should get rid of the islands on the maps, make the game way slower paced, make everything way less accurate, not allow torpedoes to reload, etc…

    • ofc islands are a prblem for bb players….

    • TheTokkin I wish people like you would stop playing the game. You love that you one shot with you bb. Fire 8 trips every 2 min, yep nothing wrong with that. But nope xv have to go.
      You need to find another game.

  2. I play cv because reminds me of rts games, the thing I most dislike about the cv is having the chance of getting like my enterprise at rank 10and so being compleatly useless with rank 7 planes, I think the cv needs a +1 -1 cv and that’s it, the cv cant get that +2 -2 because the +1 got chose with one ship and that ship has also got the +1 so you are a cv at +2, also another thing that I don’t like it’s the randomness of the fleet composition, I think the game needs an algorithm that give each team depending on the cv level in the match a minimum level of aa in total of points, like let’s say that you are a rank 7 cv then this algorithm says that a rank 7 has to face/ have in squad like a total of 250 aa, so that this removes the games where the cv is useless or the games where the cv is god and cannot be stopped, this would make the matchmaking more “linear” and this concept could be applied with every stat, so this would be a very simple and easiest implementable system that would balance very well the matchmaking, and if after some time they think that it’s too much aa or too low then they can seamply change the number, as I said this from a developer point of view would be very simple the only thing that I can see as an issue it’s the matchmaking time, because of these limitation it would take a bit longer, but with the game population this should not be an issue.
    So as I said this concept could work on cvs but this can also be applied with destroyers, cruisers, battleships on so many stats, like radars, sonars, artillery, torpedos, fire chance, reload speed….. this concept would make the game much much more balanced and linear in my opinion

  3. The biggest problem with carriers is that historically they usually operated at distances from their targets that would put them well off the map.

    • The biggest problem with carrier is that they changed how naval warfare should be fought. They literally dominate BB (remember those 6 BBs in pearl habor ? that bismarck which took 1 air dropped torp and thus crippled ? That yamato and musashi which slowly and painfully chew up by planes )
      and now in the game, we are trying to make the most dominating type of ship to be just as affective as the others ? there is no way that could happen.

    • LOL wrong a BiPLANE WW 1 tech ..game 50 meters to the Bismarck and hit her Rudder ..they are at a distance in the JET age ..And if you are talking about the ship it self .they are the ships that are all the way at the back most of the time until the dd are dead

    • @Brian smartest answer I’ve ever seen

  4. How about making it point and click much like artillery in WoT? In this mechanic, you select the target, decide which plane to send and from that point you have no control over the aircraft, much like when you pull the trigger on BB guns (you cross your fingers and hope you hit)?

    • Yeah that is much better, more of planning strikes then moving the planes around wouldbe a bit more interesting. Maybe the CVs can be a bit more strategic to play?

    • So you pretty much only have automatic drop? That would make it impossible to damage any ship thats moving/turning. Cause auto-drop only works (or is somewhat effective) against players that dont pay attention.

    • Well that depends. Autodrop can drop closer if it is implemented.

    • Maybe like that, but let you choose(at time of firing) the intercardinal direction the strike comes from, or set the approach angle in degrees…so if you time it right you can have aircraft attack over top of an island, or use care to ensure you don’t endanger friendly ships.

  5. I think the reason why CV’s are in this situation is because WG was too focused on BB’s, DD’s, and CA’s. I don’t blame WG for being focused most of the population plays those ship types, however it might have been an oversight which now has significant ramifications.

    • i feel because of how well the initial unicum carrier population did WG said “hey every new line and ship will have massive AA now and all other ships we can draw more players into by offering more AA” and it worked but it worked at the cost now all mid strength cv’s went nah its too hard to play these anymore lets play the ships that now can shred them at a click. now all the cv’s are gone except unicums who are still tearing people a new a hole and the potatos who get screamed and cursed at for trying their best and not being able to be a unicum. now with no cv’s to spot dd’s and scout because AA will shred them for spotting and if they have no planes its like playing a bb that can’t fire its main batteries at all. so now carriers don’t want to spot. so introduce radar and hydro now there is even less incentive to play cv’s now that cruisers and bb’s can do the same job. so the pop drops even more and here we are. my sugguestion is give cv’s more planes that do less damage, remove fighter strafe and lower the AA of all ships. now losing planes spotting is not a huge deal and encourages cv’s to go and spot. bb’s and cruiser’s have less fear of getting one shot. removing the strafe lets potatos be more competitive with unicums so less one sided games. and less AA means cv’s don’t have to be afraid to commit to an attack and just lose every plane and them from minute three on have nothing else to do because they are critically low on planes. this again lowers the skill barrier and lets even potatos do something for the team.

  6. You are whining a bit much, don’t you think?
    CVs is a nice change once in a while and they add a lot. Sure, it’s nowhere near perfect. Especially the UI could be way better and also more accessible. There are balance issues, especially with fighters, but those things are fixable.

    • exactly they should just suck it UP .CV have to constantly just get Used to Ships like the KIDD that was funny enough hit be a Kamikaze and doe not even have the surface area to hold so much AA power in the first place ..Did not shoot down an entire airforce in seconds

  7. iChase i really respect you for this calm and considered talk about what you see are the problems with CV´s and possible fixxes. Verry nice to have at least someone not rambling like a madman or just go “delete those”.

    • Andreas Müller yes ichase does have a point with cv’s because if they try to change something they have to change a bunch of stuff too.
      But i always wounder why don’t they just have better rng to automated aa’s or secondry guns( their just fine right now to) or match making system to fix the skill gap between players so they can just battle players that have the same skills. Is that the whole problem here? power gaps?

    • there aren’t enough players to have matchmaking consider player skill

    • @PrivateMemo and that is the main issue this game has overall and is a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. At about T5 or T6 which can be reached pretty fast new players start getting thrown into battles with people that have way more experience with a line or two unlocked to T10 and of course get slaughtered. That happens a few times than they start looking at the tech tree and XP required to go to T10 and think “fuck this slog I’m done” WoWs is dying a slow death. I’ve seen it in other games. The majority of the player base is experienced long timers and with the MM this makes the game very inaccessible for new players. Which in turn keeps the player base mostly long timers and too low to allow for skill based MM. A fix maybe to let lower skilled players at least be top tier as often as possible. That would give them a better chance. But WG really needs to do some real advertising and grow the player base substantially or the game is done for.

    • @ josh885 what server are you talking about because at least the EU server has a rather healthy playerbase for agame like this.

  8. An entire new game coming soon: ” World of Seaplanes”! Players fly the planes off of the decks of the CVs and manually fly them. you could have 5 real players per side and the player is the lead aircraft in the squadron and the other ones are AI controlled that follow your lead. CV players duties could be more leadership oriented and provide guidance to primary targets and scouting locations. Also the CV player will be responsible for the load out of each squadron which will encourage pilots to use the ordinance required for their designated target instead of going rogue. Pilot skills will be to improve the AI squadron planes so they don’t suck as much. CV skills can generally be the same as the current state. This new mode will encourage a more team dynamic within the game that will vastly improve the MMO experience instead of someone playing a solo game that just so happens to have other people in it. IDK just spit balling an idea (War Thunder basically).

    • Ironman2140 , Good idea to borrow from w o warplanes. maybe one strike at a time with ai fighters directed to privide spotting? have cv player drop into w o warplanes mode to strike.

      ijn dd’s get to fire torps every two minutes. Let cvs fly a strike mission in about the same time.

      leverages the warplanes knowledge , and player, base as well. $0.02

    • Thinking about this further and would love to hear why it would not work. Spot and maneuver during strike travel, then execute strike in warplane mode. Less hectic, less dominating, more fun and draws in the wo warplanes community.

      I do not like playing cv. not reallt good and feel i will let down my team, so why bother? I mostly sail ships with virtual air invincability so i dont worry too much; Cleveland, Alabama, Fletcher.

      “ARCon_the_destroyer”

    • Ironman2140 love this idea but how would ship’s aa affect this tho?

  9. 25:21 Looks like spood beest is gaining popularity!

  10. The problem with cv is, that the cvs are capable of both spotting and dealing dmg. Other ships are either spotting-capable, while less able to deal dmg (dds with torpedoes are less reliable) or capable of dealing dmg while unable to spot sufficiently.

  11. the only problem with cv´s i have is:
    1.
    when i play with a ship which has good & strong AA,there will be no cv´s in this games,or when a cv is in a game he will never send any plane near me!
    2.
    when i play with a ship which does not have any AA,i am flooded with cv´s EVERY SINGLE GAME and im totaly hopeless against them!
    IT IS ALWAYS EVERY DAY AND NIGHT THE SAME SITUATION IN WOWS!
    i play Kii,missouri or any other ship with good AA=No cv in sight!
    i play with leningrad,or any japanese ship like atago=i am flooded and flooded with cv EVERY SINGLE game and hopeless against ALL cv´s ,because japanese ships dont have any AA to work with!
    i hope wg will KILL & BAN this fucking game- & fun-killing cv bullshit out of the game!

    • Well for cv players its the same .cv get out tier all the time with AA heavy ships then they get good game ..just like any other ship

    • Wow, it’s almost like enemy CV players have the skill to pick targets that they’re able to hit.

    • YIP depending on tier Atlanta Minotaur ,,NC Gnei on AA build Miss Iowa GK on AA build ,Kidd Udaloy Khaba Fletcher Sims and Duke of york are no fly zones i miss a few im sure…they can be hit if the AA modules are destroyed but asking your team mates to use HE even if they cant start a fire is futal task ..it seems most players do not know HE destroys AA and Sec guns or don’t care …some players even strait up refused to help simply because they hate CV’s and they told me this in chat ..there is no incentive to play cv besides having a CV

    • “IT IS ALWAYS EVERY DAY AND NIGHT THE SAME SITUATION IN WOWS!” – whoa, boy

    • This is Life in my Atlanta. I see a CV in one game in ten and it just spends the game keeping itself and any air units 10+ km away for the rest of the game. My boat does 30 knots his plane do 150 + if i chase the planes then im showing broadside and deleted by a BB. if im “lucky” i can sit in a smoke cloud for the first 5 minutes and not shoot or do anything in the hopes that i can surprise an incoming strike package …

      Take off the radar and use sonar? for DD hunting? oh look … planes :/

      the rest of the time its spotting planes.
      Or i linger in the random division room for an hour waiting for a cv player to show up. I play on and off so this has happened to me .. less than 5 times in 3 years.

      Get bored of waiting and hop onto a next battle has 4 cv.

  12. I think one of the best solutiobs for this problem would be to implement a ranking system into the game so if you are a cv player with a ranking of 1000 you face of against players plus minus 200 ranking points or something like this so the problem with having a unicum cv player just destroying an average guy. The only problem coming from this would be the waiting times but i think you can live with that if get you fair match after that

    • It’s called skill based MM. It can also work per team, but that’s a concept that many don’t understand.

    • I agree with the idea, but it’s completely unfeasible in the current situation. Try queue times in CVs at different times of the day. (Speaking for EU) At prime time, like 8pm, you’ll get games immediately in your tier X CV, but the closer you get to 12am or later, you can wait 3 minutes and still not have another CV in queue. The buff in Midway strike power made that problem a bit better, but not by too much. Looking at WoWs-numbers, there are just about 1100 people on the EU server who have played more than 80 games in Midway.

  13. REMOVE ALL THE CVS THEN ADD SUBMARINES :V

    • Jerico Joaquin the stupest idea

    • than the game will just broke lol
      with subs in the battle ships have to drop explosive at it.
      First find a sub.
      Second STOP or slow way down and drop something on it. we can’t drop things in full speed can we? the russian teir 10 dd has a full speed of over 40 nots
      if they drop explosives trying to kill the sub it will be so hard lol and we have to aim where to drop it to so good luck while your in the middle of a battle ;P

    • Jerry Glaze It’s a joke ffs

    • krostouin ya i know but it’s fun to imagine it lol

    • krostouin ok. I have read plenty of posts saying remove cv. I think there should be more. I would like a consumable to call in air strikes from off screen.

  14. I don’t mind CVs (I play 80% cruisers/20%BBs at high tiers, and DDs at around tiers 6-8). Sure when a Midway comes up to my Hindenburg I’m usually fucked (I don’t spec any AA because CVs are so rare), but that’s maybe one in 50 games.
    But what CVs show best is the *total failure of WG to balance teams* (not ships). If you check player stats of a stomp game and see one CV had a below 40% WR in 200 games and the other one was a unicum that does 3 times the average damage, it has nothing to do with balance of ship classes. This difference in player *skill can tilt the whole match due to a single player* .
    Something similar happens with other classes, where one team gets multiple top 10% players, while the equivalent ships on the other team are all below average players. And that is without divisions. Divisions make the problem so much worse, because now you get unicum divisions playing against fail divisions.
    *The game design is inherently unstable.* The weaker team is more likely to lose ships first and thereby gets even weaker. If the teams aren’t reasonably balanced from the start this is inevitable. Half of the games are just frustration, and yes, this even includes winning games. If a game ends 12-0 or you lose with a kraken and 230k damage there’s something horribly wrong with match making.

    • David Leister first there are very few Unicom players out there. Most people average 20-30k damage a game.
      But if you want to balance for the Unicom population I could say that about anyship. I watched a trip take out 4 bb in quick succetion. Should sleep nerf the neck out of the trip? Or remove its secondaries because some people don’t build for it or donr know how to use them effetively?
      Cv are powerful but also easily countered. If you bunch up the cv can do nothing. Aa is so powerful I would say to powerful that buchned ships will kill anything coming your way.
      I think cv are in a good spot. I find it sad that people want to keep putting presser on WG to make them boring to play.
      If you take cv out of the game are you going to respect the USA ships and gi e them a different flavor. What good will Des as be if there are no cv?
      I like cv better than any other ship and I have all USA, german, and t9 French, British cruiser and still play cv most of the time.
      I am not a Unicom player but most arnt.

    • well, in this case i’m agreeing with you. sometimes you get this games where a division of decent players flat out destroy the opposing team just by knowing how to play decently together. i think the problem is not in the way CV works, but the way MM make teams. seeing that i have a better average damage with div than just playing solo by playing WITH my div rather than going on my own and get picked off

    • duckf33t noob agreed. I don’t mind to much being a t8 ship in a t10 match because I am in a cruiser and t8 or t10 bb can delete my NO in one or 2 shots. But t8 cv in a t10 match for get it!
      I just free so from t9 to t10 because your always in t10 game but your never as good as a t10 ship.
      But for cv they should only have plus one up or down. It truly in unfair to have a Kaga in a t5 game. In that case the other cv has to be predict or the team is dead. In that case WG is putting to much pressure on the other cv to have a great game.

    • superdau WG cannot balance shit in general

    • The fact that team that starts sinking ships first has and advantage is inherent to any form of combat, it’s called Lanchester square law, and there’s nothing you can do about it, unless you break up the team play into set of consecutive 1 on 1 matches (you need to eliminate ability to engage multiple targets). Statistically most of the games will end up like 12 – 4 in terms of kill ratio.

      I completely agree with the rest though. The biggest problem with balancing CVs is that there’s no problem with CV balance. The problems are elsewhere exactly as you mention (Divisions, skill disparity,…). Another problem is that people often refuse to change their playstyle when CV is present (your stereotypical flanking Tirpitz that gets nuked and then complains about OP CV because he was not able to singlehandedly shoot down 4 T10 waves).

  15. The aircraft carrier is basically WOWs’ version on artillery, you just can’t nerf it.

    • I like arty now, I play it all the time. It’s much better than it used to be.

    • Are you kidding,its so bad arty players have just dropped away,my game waits have become much longer

    • I would think that if game waits are longer, it’s more because of the template system than due to fewer arty players. Games without arty are rare, and games with 3 arty are not. I haven’t noticed wait times being long though, except at really low tiers where they’re always long except at peak times. I don’t have any tier 10s so maybe it’s longer there, especially if you don’t do grand battles…and if you turn off assault and encounter in all tiers it’s probably slower…can’t help that.

      The stun system lets you cooperate better with your teammates, not just be an indirect fire TD. I didn’t like arty much before, but it’s more interesting now, less boring, so I play it…as do other new arty players. There’s definitely player turnover, but the rate of replacement is high enough that it shouldn’t impact the game much. Also, I know some players who’ve played arty for years, who just adapted to it and are still playing what they love.

      I respect your opinion, saying you dislike the changes…but many of us do not. 🙂

    • that’s why you can’t nerf it. I am fearful of CV changes with that move in their history

    • I disagree,i play t10 arty and trust me waits much longer…

  16. I think it was a mistake to include carriers in the first place. If you look at board wargames, we usually have seperate games for carrier battles and surface actions. The only battles that resemble a WOWS game with carriers are the battle around Leyte. That was because usually the powers would not engage their surface fleets unless they suspected enemy carriers would not be present, or to few or ineffective to be a seirous threat against their ships.

    • but you can’t not include them. how many people wanted to sail the Enterprise. WG just needed to think long and hard on the playstyle before the game was launch

  17. CVs were perfectly fine back in closed beta. . . but no, WG wanted BB players to be top priority and wack CVs with the nerf stick multiple times over.

    this is the reason why i left WoWs. . . i knew it was never going to get better

    • Yep stopped playing CVs when that big change came to them after open beta.

    • OTanks i remember my Taihou having triple torpedo and triple dive bomber ohhh those were the days. No one can survive the triangle drop of doom and even if you did i had three dive bomber chances to finish a wounded animal haha.

  18. A simple fix for CV-s is just to delete them from the game.

  19. Dip-Dip Potato Chip

    My fix for everything? Remove carriers. There, done.

  20. I hate when im in a tier 10 game, everyone has INSANE AA but you think ok ill save my bombers for either a vunerable target or wait till late game when the enemy AA mounts get damaged. however the team sees me “doing nothing and kill stealing at the end” or just plain not attacking AA ships i mark so i can help, then moan that im not helping ?. im not killing my planes for you if you will not attack the AA ships for me. anyone have any thoughts on how to deal with a team like that ?.

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