Hey guys, I have a bit of a response video to NoZoup’s video on the same topic, let me know what you think below!
Outro Music: Stranger Think- C418
Have a replay?
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They are dying . But I’ll continue to enjoy my Iowa that’s for sure.. I feel even Bismarck is also a fun ship if played right..
Info History fun fact. Didn’t even have one. I’m a BB main. And BB “dying” are absolute nonsense.
I Gusti Praba man wake up and smell the coffee, you’re clearly not a BB main. BB are fine in this current state of game said nobody recently . The issue is the overpens and it’s happening more and more now. You have a one track mind and keep coming back with the same argument. I honestly don’t think you are getting at all. But it’s ok. Some just can’t be helped and your unfortunately without even knowing it, it that group. Enjoy yourself
Mario Fourie I played around 1600 battles in a BB. My most played ship type. Why is overpen an issue now? It’s been around since the dawn of time. YOU CANT DELETE BROADSIDE CRUISERS WITH 100% RELIABILITY. That has never been the case. You can’t even do that as a cruiser. Tone down your expectations when playing a BB. It’s no longer the rofl stomping class it was 2 years ago.
I Gusti Praba you’ve made my point . Like I said you clearly don’t get what’s being argued here. It’s ok, one day it will make sense for you.
@I Gusti Praba u two guys are really arguing a lot about a game 😑😂
Dont comment on “lets be freinds” comment and you’ll see what will happen
Hi, i enjoy your content, wanna be friends?
3:30 and worse, is you are then sitting there waiting for 20+ seconds for the guns to reload, while the shitty little Cruiser you shot at is firing upwards of 4x faster than you hitting anywhere from 2k to 4k damage or more in each of those hits (and setting fires on top of that.).
IMO, once a Battleship commits to a push, it should be committed and it should be frightening enough to enemy ships they need to run away, they need to be the Tanks of the game. TBH, I think a lot of the issues would be fixed if Fires were reworked on Battleships, make Battleships innately better at resisting fire or having DamCon good enough they burn out quicker than on Cruisers/DD.
@Dennis Keßler This game absolutely have nothing to do with realism, that is for sure. If it where we would have to have Faaaaaaar bigger maps. The BBs would be sniping 40 – 50 KMs and the CVs would rule ALL. You do not seem to get that everything should have a counter. Everything should also have a place to show of it strengths. Lets go where you wanted and push the arcade argument. I think that the out ranged 406mm BB guns of a GK sucks compared to the longer range 130mm Smolensk guns. I mean obviously the 130mm guns should have longer range, BWTF do I care….. Since it is a arcade game I would like to take it a bit further. I do not see any upside with the 406mm any more. Over pens, longer reload, shorter range , turning speed sucks ……. We do not care about those. I would really like to swap out those GK guns and fit as many as humanly possible of those Smolensk turrets onto that GK hull. I mean REALLY stack them. I mean…. hey it is a arcade game and the 130mm are obviously faaar better gun for this BB. I could really like to see that I could melt some cruisers in return with that setup… mmmmmm. I would like to aim my 50 – 75 130mm guns onto that target and just bring hell and destruction. This is the problem. Big guns have no upside against a class that it should be on top of. BBs should be cruisers counter. This have NOTHING to do with realism at all.
Arca BBs are the counter of cruisers…if you can’t do it but other players can do it…whose fault could it be? Must be the poor BB…yeah. And the fact that you say that you got less range with your GK as a Smoli proofs your bad knowledge. I know that you talking about GK with legendary modul…but this module isn’t a must have and if you take that penalty don’t complain about it. Last days I played 8 games with BB (Amagi, Tirpitz, Jean Bart, Conq, Kremlin) Average damage? 123,517 damage. Win rate? 66,67%….and just 1 game in conq and kremlin. So BBs still an very good class. And I’m not a decent BB player. Just close to 2000 PR. Everything is fine, but bots complaing since the beginning of the game that their favorite class (that should be the greatest of all in their opinion because of big guns) is dying and to weak. If you position your self right and I don’t mean 20km snipping and read the Minimap you can still have Good Games in BB. But yeah at the moment it’s a little bit harder because of the European DD grinds.
@Dennis Keßler Well it seems like The Sea Lord an Soup does not agree with you. I put it like this for you. If a DD gets close to a BB and he makes the mistake to put him into that position, then yes he deserves to be blapped out of this game with all those juicy torps. If a cruiser as stated in this vid turn within 10 KM and puts himself broadside in front of a BB…. the yes he should be blapped out of this game. If a DD is stupid enough to wander far into a cruisers radar and get light up, then yes he should be melted from the game. You see balance. When a cruisers melts BBs and BB only gets over pens on broadside cruisers, that is not balance. You told Roger Rumble that you suspected him to only want OP BBs. It seems to me like you only want OP cruisers?
Arca You don’t get it. I agree with you in this points (BB vs cruiser, DD vs BB, etc.). But ask yourself why some players get those devastating strikes and others not. Sea Lord and Soup are average, zoup a little bit about average players…and the thing that cruisers got the same problems with overspens, HE etc….but the got more like overmatch mechanic, less health, less armor etc….think about this! If you want to buff BBs then you need to buff cruisers too…and after this DDs…and then?
@Dennis Keßler Nobody wants OP BBs. But these two vids on YouTube points out issues that can be seen. Nobody likes to see most BBs hanging out in the back of the map. The reluctant attitude of the BB players not wanting to push actually come from some things. I am not talking about those players thinking that this is the way it is meant to be. Yes I also know that some BBs are meant to be played at longer range and finding those gates of clear shots that gives great angles. But let’s face it, not all modes should be as KOTS. Most players would like to have their BBs closer support. This is also fun. A really good brawling game is fun. Right now…. That is really difficult to pull of. The problem here is that that BB players have figured out that if you are caught pushing, you are dead. You will most likely not be able to disengage. This is a problem. I like the opinion in this vid trying to solve this. If disengageing is an option, maybe we will see BBs push more. A bit more balanced.
In fact dying of battleships is historically correct. 🙁
@Jugoslav Cvitkovac no wtf. the kirov is 28,000 tons while the yamato is 71,659 tons at full load. yes they are almost the same length, but the size of ships is based on water displacement not length.
@David the Kirov class battlecruisers have enough anti ships missiles to take on multiple arleigh burke destroyers by itself. ships are getting bigger and bigger. look at the arleigh burke and the zumwalt. should really be classified as guided missile cruisers instead.
@Malnutrition Boy Zumwalt is a good example as it’s generally regarded as a failure. Frigates may get a little larger but there will be no return to heavy cruisers or battleships until something comes along to render aircraft carriers obsolete.
Battleship still demolishes everything smaller than them. In fact Jean Bart and Vanguard were still a huge threat until the Soviets introduced the bus size ASMs. It’s just that they’re really costly for essentially a second line unit/escort for carriers.
Dying of battleships is indeed historically correct, but very different reasons. In reality cost and aircraft carriers. But in this game, I doubt the player base just wants to run circles around their carriers providing AA like reality, never coming into range of an enemy fleet. The focus of naval warfare changed from ship to ship gunnery to defending against and defeating the enemy with naval aviation. In the game, cost isnt an issue, carriers still can rule the day, and battleships are the easy big target to farm and sink in totally unrealistic ways.
WG wants to speed up the game, they did this in WOT with the clown cars a few years back. HE spamming cruisers are the meta they want, makes the matches go faster.
I think you nailed it. The whole point of speeding up the game is to attract younger players, but as in wot, i think they will eventually lose the older, more reliable player base.
@Jugoslav Cvitkovac yes and that older more reliable playerbase probably are the kind of people who have jobs and can and are willing to spend money on the game. They are basically driving away their paying customers
They need to implement a fire saturation system. Like u can get a Max damage of fire per area. Some areas of the ship cant burn forever. The only cruisers that u can punish most of times when broadside are the Japanese ones. The rest, overpen party all the time. I’m sorry but a cruiser at 8km broadside, and i need 3 or 4 salvos to kill it. In that time i’m dead 3 times. You need to reward players that know how to angle. Not players that just sail broadside…
If they would increase fire immunity after repair from 10s to 30s or something that would give a chance the BBs to disengage.
Except for the British because they also spam HE, and I feel a lot more fun playing the conq nowadays because I can retaliate a Smolensk with HE cit and fire. I have dropped the mentality of BB only using AP months ago even with the Yama. I see a broadside Smolensk HE is the way to go
lets be honest…the whole game is dying.
@DaManBearPig Yep, pretty much. Introducing stuff that’s not good for gameplay is kinda dumb, don’t you think? WG has been introducing a lot of shit to WOWS in the past years and most of it was bad for the gameplay. That’s what’s this video is about and that’s why people afraid of BBs dying out slowly. This game used to be good and very enjoyable. It’s mostly frustrating and sometimes downright infuriating.
@T Papai the only reason why it’s not good for the game is the portion of the player base that hates one of the mechanics of the game so much they out the part of the player base that enjoys it. The game doesn’t need to change, the players do.
T Papai well that’s your opinion
Kira Hikimura agreed. CVs and HE spam don’t bother me I play around them when I’m a bb
Good thing im jumping ship.
The amount of smoke in game is insane its meant to be used defensively but is way to effective when used for attacking
Smolensk, Harugumo. Best examples of using it offensively, which should not be in the game. Even Colbert who does not have smoke is still bad
@Daniel I Haragumo was declard as by dd players as finally a dd better than everything else. The fliod gates opened as we got Smolnick. Smoke should make you blind no matter what.
@Daniel I Don’t forget the Italian Cruiser.
Dionisos161 yeah but Italian cruisers are just completely underpowered, except Venezia they need smoke
@Daniel I smoke should not be there as it is. Sitting smoke doing damage and aa works perfectly is stupid plan and simple.
Maybe a new damage type, if a ship is hit with an salvo of over penatrations at this closer range. Like an hull breach wich cuses heavy flooding or higher damage if the majority of shells hit.
flooding due to underwater AP penetration was an open beta feature, along with DD citadel and Hosho with 3 torpedo squadrons. those were the days.
the BBs are dead?think about when the Subs comes in game what gonna happen.lets be clear Cruisers and DDs not afraid to face a BB right now
There’s not even an argument for BBs not being dead. By adding submarines, Wargaming has added the ship that made battleships OBSOLETE in the real world. We’re just looking at history repeating itself.
Its no fun having 3 fires on you, repairing and have 3 more fires within a minute. You just can’t do anything if you are in range of certain HE firing ships. Also, lol island campers.
@Dennis Keßler Positioning ?!!! are you joking right? i will wait for you to be in range of lets say 12 km, waitting in smoke or behind an island and i want you to disengage with a BB from that range!!!not to mention long range 19+ HE cruisers spammers! the point is they should nerf the time or the amount of fires(no more then 2 lets say)
@White Blossom but why should they? because BBs tank and deal the most damage? check the numbers…why should they buff BBs and nerf all other classes? because BBs should be the ultimate class? and if you push into 3-4 ships at 12km range alone you position yourself wrong. you dont need to push with a BB at the wrong place at the wrong time. push with a BB into 2 enemies and use islands as your side cover…2 “HE spamers” needs minutes to think you…and pls dont use damage con for 1 fire like 80% of BB bots…strange that there is only 1 BB allowed in CWs for years…and this was before the IFHE nerf…the problem is not the class/ship…its in 99% the player in front of the monitor.
@Dennis Keßler Your playstyle is winning? As in HE spam is winning? You’re making his point for him.
Robert Hermann Nope, winning means: do what you can to win…I check a ship and think about what the best way is to win with this ship. That doesn’t mean always HE but for sure I use terrain because I use the minimap. Just because a lot of BB bots don’t understand this WG shouldn’t buff this class (easiest in the game btw). Why should you get rewarded for your laziness…just learn the game like the good players do. Wows isn’t a game of fast reflexes or things like that, it’s an old men’s shooter. Just use your brain and the informations. The 60%+ guys like me don’t cheat (cheating would be useless in wows) and we aren’t „just lucky“ with the teams…we use our brains. And if soooo many good player players achieve very good numbers with BBs, how can this class be so bad?
Fuck World of Warships.Destroy my battleships ,I hope the new games coming at the end of the year shut you down….
Bbs are dying in enjoyability because of the things WG ignores. The overpens are insane for broadsiding ships that should be getting punished, HE Spammers being introduced more and more, subs with no serious counter, and to top it off the introduction of the pan euro dds with “fast but low dmg torps” but the dmg per torp is irrelevant when all of them hit you because by the time you detect them you won’t be able to turn away in time. Not to mention the crazy punishment you get just for trying to escape such terrible situations. It’s to the point where I’m considering getting Salem or Yoshino instead of the new Ludendorff they announced for coal because I don’t know if I can stand playing a BB right now.
Everything you mentioned is true however the pan euro dds are quite easy to dodge…dont wait for them to be spotted to dodge. They are so narrow spread that a simple turn will throw all of them off and miss. All you really need is a bit of situational awareness to know where the dd is headed and therefore you know where the torps are coming from. Use your speed as well.
DaManBearPig fucking kid. Correcting someone spelling makes absolutely no sense in an argument. You are clearly a troll.
@DaManBearPig I don’t give a fuck*
*There* this is the reason why im quiting World of warships what he just said there. And wargamers punish players.
I think WG needs to look at the old king for this scenario, Battlestations: Pacific.
In that game you had a damage control party that specialized in 4 types of repair: fire control, flooding control, repairs (healed your HP), and module repair for your AA guns and turrets.
You would switch between these 4 stances on your damage control party and as a result you had a realistic system that took time to work but was something you could control and moderate to have a very survivable ship. (This is going off of memory from 9 years of not being able to play but I think I remember right.)
That game is more fun as a 1v1 compared to big multiplayer games. I’d still play it though, make CVs a separate 1v1 mode instead of thrusting it into surface games
Battleships have the best bulkheads to fight fires and flooding. Deck fires actually dont last long on battlehips. Theyre quite easy to extinguish. Except in WG they last the longest and do the most damage.
Amazing game i want it remastered
I loved that game! Man I still remember (don’t remember the ship or mission, American but thats it.) And hugging an island trying to repair with like a totally destroyed ship hanging in by a hair trying to get one lucky shot on the last enemy. That memory is the whole reason I started playing WoWs lol. Such a rush. This game would benefit greatly from a crew/repair mechanic like that imo.
I still play it even to this day, specially when not in the mood for wows and for some single player, specially after getting added missions
The complete uselessness of secondaries against DDs is also a factor. I used to enjoy playing a Bayern with a secondary build. But now it seems that the secondaries on it just can’t do any damage to DDs. Even when I play well enough to catch DDs at close range, without eating a whole load of torps, they can just wander away out of range, while my secondaries shoot at the DD, but get barely any hits.
And that’s just completely frustrating gameplay.
That ist not true. German 2nddaries yes. But they are good against BB’s. If you Look at American 2nddaries… They can kill dd’s relative good
Republique is the only ship I have that can have secondaries that are scary for DDs, but that requires a full secondary build to do, and the newer DDs like the Holland with absurd torps (speed + reload) mean you can’t push at all. You can’t dodge those torps, and you can’t push while they’re reloading because they’ve already reloaded. I honestly prefer rushing Asashios to rushing Hollands…
KM BB secondaries are also getting to be a joke. They’re so inaccurate there really isn’t a point in them. My Bismarck full secondary build can do a bit against a DD, but my FDG secondary build is utterly pointless. I keep it for the memes, but you can’t get close enough to use them, and they’re so inaccurate that nothing (not even BBs) are actually scared of them.
Between secondaries hardly hitting anything, DDs having dumb torps, and HE spam at an all time high, it’s not hard to see why secondaries are utterly useless nowadays.
My big mamie would like a word with you
Massachusetts, Kurfurst, and Georgia have netted me many DD kills with secondaries.
Literally the new Americans, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Ohio should have their accuracy replaced with whole German line. Like how in the fuck, they were supposed to have best Secondary, it’s historical. America never ever even used secondary like wtf. Back then secondarys were usable but still weak because of the innacuracy. It gotta change wargaming, maybe a slight DMG buff would help…
It’s a game at the end of the day (though an increasingly frustrating one). In the real world a battleship shell would cause enormous damage to a cruiser and likely cripple,if not sink a destroyer. It’s not just about the armour it’s about the structure that supports it,the loss of hydraulics or electricity,the loss of watertight integrity.
3 points on the uzi like cruisers or destroyers…
Firstly if they were to fire as fast as the do they would empty their magazines very quickly. Perhaps that’s the answer. Yep you can “hose the road” but you’ll eventually run out and be defenceless.
2. Battleships were designed to take damage and give it out. Yep you can shower a battleship with small calibration shells but the vitals should be ok. Fast firing cruisers weren’t new,neither was relying on fast firing 6 inchers. Look at any predreadnought. The lighter battery was meant to chew them up, the big guns to give the coup de grace. Dreadnoughts were armoured far more comprehensively than predreadoughts as a result.
Pretty much any bb shell is going to wreck a cruiser to some degree. Even a dud will cause chaos. Perhaps the focus should be on highlighted this. Yes,you can fire a gizillion shots at me – but if I hit you once it will ruin your day and 2 or 3 will end it.
@M Fletch The thing is, for this “realistic” aspect to work, fleets would have to be hardcapped to 1 CV and 1 BB max on each team, as they in in the real world are just that much more powerful than all the smaller vessels. Since this is a game however, you can’t have that kind of atrocious balance without a hardcap. And speaking of hardcapping BBs and CVs, this wouldn’t work in practice since BBs are consistently the most played class in the game, so the queues for BBs and CVs that wanna play “top dog” would be horrendous.
@Jack Vac Exactly. Had the countries in WW2 had “unlimited resources and manpower”, you bet your ass that they would have mass produced BBs and CVs as their strategic power projection is that much greater than anything a cruiser or destroyer has. Since this is a game however, you can’t have such game balance unless you hardcap fleets to 1 BB and CV each, and especially BB players would hate that with the BB population being as high as it is.
@roger Rumble Sure it was, you are just making stuff up here. Quick example, Operation Torch in 1942 where french cruisers and destroyers used a smoke screen to sortie and counterattack the american fleet. Stop whining.
Not at all. Just a bit of “bringing back down to earth”. At the end of the day the maps do have islands and terrain that allow a cruiser to ambush,where it has gone awry is when you have what is for all intents an purported a AA cruiser designed in the late 40’s (if built at all) taking out a ship specifically built to resist shellfire from a battleship.
A super cruiser is just that- a super cruiser. Effectively a battlecruiser and there is plenty of evidence to show what happened to ships built powerful armament but little protection.
Perhaps it’s a shame that optics weren’t a big part of the game or bridge hits. Take out the fire control directors and lose your visual range or accuracy. This effectively nobbled several warships – HMS Norfolk managed to do it to Bismarck and Scharnhorst. Get big points scores for it!?
Samuel Håkansson agree completely that there would be compromise.
The other potential solution “of sorts” is to beef up the secondaries range and rate of fire.
If you have the technology to fire a 4 to 6 inch shell 20 times a minute on a destroyer or cruiser it follows that the same technology would be available for a BB. Secondaries weren’t a point blank defence system – they were there to combat destroyers and cruisers whilst the big guns got on with the traditional line of battle with an opposing BB. By WW2 almost all the modern or modernised BB’s had good secondary fire control so could (and did) shoot their secondaries at range.
Don’t kill the super cruisers , but put them in their place – they would muller a destroyer,light or heavy cruiser – and that was what they were designed for. I’ve never seen any article or journal that suggests that they were meant to go toe to toe with a BB.
The problem is that if you give a particular class a quantum leap in technology you have to do it to the other classes to maintain balance.
So if you have a chainsaw cruiser you end up with a BB with guns that range to 45000 yards accurately with little dispersion and shells with supreme ship destroying capability. You have destroyers with long range acoustic torpedoes and so on and so on. Nothing happens in isolation.
Yup enter subs exit BB’s and Heavy Cruisers even.
Hm. Submarines and CVs are what made the battleship obsolete in the real world, I don’t know why Wargaming thinks it will be different here. Heavy cruisers, it’s more dependent on what kind of heavy cruiser. A German or Japanese one? Likely fucked. American or British? They might have more luck. Survivability will come down to manueverability in the end…
I’m a total n00b compared to many youtubers who have played WoWS for years now, but… maybe it’s a matter of not looking out for broadsides so much? If you know the target is lightly armoured and you’re likely to overpenetrate, wait until it’s angled, so to give you more armour to penetrate. Or get Expert Loader and switch to HE when necessary. There are new challenges, maybe the meta is changing, but it’s not unreasonable for the game to demand you to adapt your age-old tactics, without necessarily becoming an HE spammer.
That said, I don’t think the balance is perfect. There’s work to be done. And then there’s the matter of subs, but I think WG knows how controversial they are, and they are thoroughly testing them. I don’t think BBs will be able to do much about them, but I doubt a significant number will be allowed in the usual random battle. Also a new meta will be born, and chances are their hard counter is going to be the same as CVs’: teamwork.
I just love getting a pen on a DD, and doing the same damage as an overpen.
i love getting 2 pens on a cruiser with 1000 HP and doing NO damage
Reduce overpens, improve dispersion and secundaries, and fix HE spamming by reducing the number of times a part of the ship can catch fire like this: 1 bow- 2 middle- 2 middle – 1 aft
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