World of Warships Chaff Consumable and Yueyang gameplay

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Today I have a mini-rant on the chaff rumors and my stance on the desire for this consumable. No. Nope. Stop trying to make the game adapt to you and learn to adapt to it.

Also I have some Yueyang gameplay. Not a bad round at all. 250k damage through a combination of lucky torp hits and some daring do. Lot’s of fun.

60 Comments:

  1. What’s radar spelled backwards?

  2. Nice to see a CC trying to educate the players. Keep up the good work. Could you do a video on how to use islands to help screen versus just camping behind them?

    • Hell, it’s nice to see a CC with a love of destroyers not whining about radar.

    • How is this education. For me he’s just whining to the public so WG can avoid making a change he and his buddies don’t want.

      His education for BBs resulted in stronger ships outside that class, and he saw no problem there. So if we want stronger DDs, to counter the radar meta, how is that different from how he wanted more inaccurate BBs to counter the maximum range meta after smoke was nuked?

  3. I mostly agree with your comments on radar. Adapting to the radar is meta not too bad although constant stacking/overlapping radar is bloody annoying as relocating a long distance takes a long time in warships. I find more of the problem is radar with the concealment meta rewarding passive play and punishing active play. Maybe regulate radar power unless the target acquisition module is used?

    • What makes this ironic is, where was this point of view when he complained about the status of Battleships. Could I not have easily said to Zoup, Notser, and Flamu “Battleships are not going away, adapt and learn to deal with them”. They insisted and got their way, Battleships not in Clan Wars all but one, CV’s eliminated as collateral damage, because they and DDs are the only meaningful counter; Tier V’s removed from all Co-Op Operation Scenarios, increased focus on Tier X (which Flamu recently ranted about)

      There are changes they demanded, and received (albeit imperfectly) and now when their hens come to roost, they don’t like it.

    • Yes I thought the t10 rant was funny. 12 months ago there was nothing to do with top teir other than randoms once finished them now they moan that there is too much. Who wants to unlock a Ferrari only to leave it in a garage! Personally I’ve gone right off flamu, once he was just salty but is now a bit of a bully in his videos.

    • Radar stacking could be worked around by *instead* lengthening the cooldowns of radar, or shortening the duration. A step they could make now, is possibly the removal of the radar module.

  4. I think radar is OP right now and I say that because it shouldn’t be able to detect u through solid rocks or cover and that’s got me killed loads of times when trying to play stealthy so im all for Chaff

    • The good thing about it is that rocks still stop shells, so while you’re detected you know there’s an active radar ship and can take measures to avoid being fired upon.

    • That’s not really gonna stop everyone in range seeing u on the map while there may have a lil front cover but the cover isn’t 360 so I think a good balance would be that only the person with the radar gets notified that chaff is being used within its radar range but doesn’t give away its location and its not only till the ship has the other ship insight that it appears on the mini map.

  5. I am against chaff, but playing a DD with all these radar cruiser is more like playing lottery. I played several battles in my Benson and all battles I went out with nearly no damage and I was unable to cap. I tried several times and everytime I needed to flee and no one was firing at the radar cruiser, when I spotted him. I barely survived these battles, but I had no luck with my fish and so I got nearly no XP and credits at all. There is the real problem with it. I’ve supported my team by spotting for them, smoking them, but in one fight I even got out with a loss in credits.
    You do not get rewarded for teamplay you just get rewarded for idiotic selfish gameplay.
    I’ve tested it and when you spot someone, you BB fires and the enemy fires back before the shells of the BB hit, you get no spotting damage for this shot, so no XP for spotting damage. What idiotic system is this? I treid it, yolo rush in, kill someone or just make some damage and you get easily twice the XP, even when your team losses.

    Therefor you get a penalty for 2 rounds as teamkiller, because one shell of your accidentially hit a friendly ship for just 1700 damage. That’s a bad joke isn’t it?

    Sorry, but the penalty and reward system of WoWs needs a real overhaul and a real good one.

    I’m not saying you can’t play anymore, but playing DD isn’t fun anymore. Either you play risky and get killed instantly or you play boring and not helping long range torping (what isn’t even possible with these shit IJN torps anymore) and get no reward unless you’re really lucky and luck is unfortunately not part of my life. So my time of playing DDs has come more or less to an end and I play mostly BBs or CLs/CAs and my most successful class the DDs rot away in the harbour.
    If I would get rewarded it would be ok, but you just get f…..g comments, that you are an useless DD even though you help and support your team as good as possible.

    • Upset much? You sound like a BB player with that whining. Not so fun is it? Welcome to Battleship play. Where everyone blames you for being shit even though you’re doing everything you can to help your team without DYING.

    • Then I must say you play BB parking at the far side of the battle shelling the enemy at max distance. I’ve never seen a BB being blamed in chat for being in front leading or helping to push. As a DD you are immideatly called out and sometimes even reported, if you don’t contest the cap right from the beginning.
      But if you would have read what I wrote, it doesn’t really interest me, what other players think. There are so many “Pro’s” and the reporting system is a joke at all. People report, but don’t say you’re good. That’s just a thing for those they know and then it doesn’t count how good they play.
      No, the real thing I complain is the XP and credit calculation as it never changed to support teamplay. To the contrary it supports only selfish and absolut egoistic gameplay and there it absolutely doesn’t matters which class of ship you are using. It’s just that in those ships that have a major penalties suffer the most from it.

    • You must not see much then, do you? Battleships are blamed for dying all the time. Criticized in fact; You should have angled better. You over extended. You should have done this, should have done that. Or the old fashioned, LOL GIT GUD M8.

      It happens all the fricking time. But then you probably don’t pay attention to that or you’re simply lying. But by all means, continue complaining about how destroyers shouldn’t be held to the same standard as battleships when things are stacked against you. Continue saying how it’s a fucking battleship meta and how battleship captains just need to get good.

      Now that the shoe is on the other foot, you have people like Zoup saying YOU just need to adapt and GET GOOD. Stop complaining.

    • Perhaps it is the fact I’m playing on EU servers? The players on the different server play and act absolutely different. Just for an example I know some that play on asien servers and there CVs are an absolut rarety, here in EU you still see them regularily. Not far as often as you would have a year ago, where nearly every battle had one or two carriers on each side, but they are still common.
      Here in EU the BBs are still ruling the seas and blame all others. Just one thing everyone is sure of, normally the DD is the reason for losing.

  6. You want graphic support for the potential of chaff? Look at some of the last couple videos produced by WoWS/WG… there’s one that has two monitors in it… the monitor on the right has a very blatant image of chaff being launched vertically above a ship.

    I have to say your attitude in this video is very offensive Zoup. You in fact sound like a typical WoWS employee, not a CC with allegiance to players. So you have an issue sounding like a company shill.

    Yes, another consumable that offsets radar is chaff inside the existing DD smoke.

    “Radar is here to stay.” Says YOU?

    • So… WG adds new line of radar ships (nothing new here), and they are also very good at killing DD’s. (Nothing new here.) I seriously don’t understand why the addition of a new line will cause players to be unable to do the same thing they have always done, when there are already ships in game which do the same thing. (Minotaur, Des Moines etc.) Of course there will be a temporary spike of radar ships, as people will want to try out the line, and grind it out, but all in all, how does it change the quantity balance of radar? Nothing new really has been added. These CL’s counter DD’s (like aforementioned Minotaur and Des Moines). It is not like they added a minimum of 5 radar ships to each team in the MM algorithm.

    • +Admiral Spoor can you send me your arguments? Tbh, if you wish for discussion, and your thoughts about radar to be heard, be polite; or no one will take you seriously, as from there, it just dissolves into a rant, rather than a debate, or intellectual discussion.

    • There are players that think radar is fine, aren’t there? Are they all WG employees too?

    • +Elmer Keberlein
      Gee, I wish I were paid by WG… ;P

    • noobtotale me too!

  7. Why u no like chaff? But seriously, it would help to counter the shitshow that is high tier gameplay and radar. As for changing playstyle Zoup, no. A lot of the high tier destroyers have specific skillsets.

  8. Great discussion Zoup, thanks. Although chaff could be interesting, I don’t really see the issue being with RADAR itself. You’re very much correct in saying that we DD mains need to adapt our play-style to the current meta and allow it to make us better players for it. That said, I see the real issue being with the lack of teamwork in game. It’s true that cruisers are SUPPOSED to be the support ships just like the DD is SUPPOSED to spot for the team and CAP and the BB is SUPPOSED to tank damage and punish enemy ships. There’s SUPPOSED to be a synergy between all of the ship classes that will harmonize when the players aren’t selfish. But that’s the core issue isn’t it? At least In PUG matches, it’s usually every ship for itself so the whole team suffers… not just the DD. Currently, the only way to really get support from teammates it to join a division or play clan matches. WoWS is a team oriented game that is, unfortunately, usually occupied by twelve me-monsters running rampant on each side with utter disregard for their teammates. It’s sad but I really don’t see that changing any time soon; at least not in Random Battles anyway.

  9. Rumor or not, chaff does sounds interesting.

  10. Bring on the Chaff

  11. Players shouldn’t have to adapt to OP proximity spotting. They need to make radar like the normal detection mechanic and it will be much better. Players behind islands shouldn’t be proxi spotted from 11.7 km away through multiple islands. It is just ridiculous and really hurts DDs that are genuinely trying to cap.

  12. There are 4 destroyers, 18 cruisers (19 if the Stalingrad has it available, but it doesn’t say on the WoWS wiki page), and 1 battleship from tiers VII to X with RADAR, totaling 23/24 ships at tiers VII to X out of 117 ships from those tiers, making the percentage about 20%-21%. When you remember the percentage could have been higher, about 22%-23%, if the RN battleships had RADAR as they did when they first went into testing, you’ll know for certain that WarGaming seem to think that giving everybody and their uncle RADAR is not only not broken, but necessary. Why they think that, I don’t know.

    But when _anyone_ be they a destroyer, stealthy cruiser, a well-positioned battleship, or what have you, can be just *poof* countered, discovered, and thwarted with a single button press, even if that player has done everything right up to that point, it forces stagnation. No one pushes until they know where every RADAR ship on the enemy team is. The ones that do, die. So your early caps suffer for it, because the stealthy DDs and cap contesters are pensive about going forward. Cruisers don’t push forward because their DDs aren’t pushing. BBs don’t push and hump the border extra hard because no one else is pushing. Couple this with RDF/RPF/RL, and anyone who thinks they’re being sneaky and flanking is shut down immediately.

    Do I think RADAR is blatantly an overpowered gimmick that murders fun by forcing everyone to be passive? Well, yes, personally. However, I’d be willing to tolerate it if there were effective counters to RADAR, outside of “hurr durr just leave and come back later.” Making RADAR (and SONAR) line-of-sight based, incapable of going through islands, would be a great start. That alone would calm my nerves enough to actually get me to play some more. This rumoured chaff sounds interesting. It sounds like it has some historical basis (though it seems to have been plane launched, not ship launched, but oh well), and if it’s something like smoke in that you “lay” it behind you as you go, it would seem like a great team-play aspect, covering your teammates approaches better than ordinary smoke. It would obviously need a lot of testing, though if it received 5 minutes of testing it would still have received more testing than RADAR ever did.

    But to just dismiss the people pointing out the prevalence of RADAR as just whiny babies who can’t play the game and just need to quit crying and git gud is, first of all, just plain rude, and secondly, blind hatred of their viewpoints, which gets no one anywhere. Right out of the gate, Zoup, you came out swinging without even addressing their concerns. Most people with tier X cruisers are playing US/UK/USSR cruisers, all of which can equip RADAR. Except for the UK CLs, most of them will never swap out their RADAR for a plane, unless it’s a meme build. The number of people playing Zaous and Hindenburgs are comparatively low, and the HIV’s population is hilariously low. Tiers VIII and IX are the same story, but to lesser degrees (Mogami, Roon, and Martel are all relatively popular). Quite a few people play the Pan-Asian DDs, which all equip RADAR. There are more than a few Missouris floating around. WarGaming practically gave away an Indianapolis to anyone who showed up. Belfasts tore apart the entire tier VII meta when WG decided it wasn’t broken to give a ship total immunity from torpedoes and extreme resistance to return fire. All six high tier US cruisers (7 including Salem) have RADAR, meaning everyone from tier VI up has to deal with RADAR everywhere. We can count tier V if we count the tier VII premiums in the game.

    RADAR is everywhere, and the gameplay has ground almost to a halt in terms of speed and fluidity. If you like to sail around in circles in your own base for half the game until the enemy’s (or your) RADAR ships suffer from a sudden rush of shit to the brain and get themselves killed so as to allow for your stealthy elements to finally have enough confidence that they won’t just get murdered the minute the sail into a cap, that’s fine. But to sit there and start the video hostile, and end it hostile, while giving absolutely zero acknowledgement to the opposing side, strikes me as quite disingenuous.

    • look at every ship that has “strong” radar. None of them can take hit very well and get farmed out super fast. We are not counting moskava here since 20second radars are not an issues to most dds. making radar line of sight would force said squishy cruisers to get infront of the big battle ship guns and take overpens and cits. suddenly playing a radar crusier is not great unless you open water and again squishy crusiers dont take hit very well. you also give dds absolute dominance over islands and everyone but the dds will avoid them like a plague. anti radar and or hydro is a weird gimmick that also give immunity to pushing dds as there is no way to see them coming. you want passive game play? make everyone afraid of getting close to a cap cuz a dd can hide behind an island and torp from stealth or they have a consumable that make them invisible to the only few counters to smoke.

    • I agree that too much radar makes the game very stale, but WG added a new line of radar ships (nothing new here), that are also very good at killing DD’s. (Nothing new here.) I seriously don’t understand why the addition of a new line will cause players to be unable to do the same thing they have always done, when there are already ships in game which do the same thing. (Minotaur, Des Moines etc.) These CL’s counter DD’s (like aforementioned Minotaur and Des Moines). It is not like they added a minimum of 5 radar ships to each team in the MM algorithm. I am against the addition of an anti- radar consumable, or changing radar to line- of sight. I firmly support kevin Iam’s argument against line- of sight changes to radar, for the same reasons. If anything, radar duration times need to be shortened, or their cooldown’s lengthened, so that “radar spam” is less of a “problem”. DD’s need a counter before the USN CL’s, you could expect 5 DD’s in almost every battle. If you are asking for DD’s to be without counters, I would like WG to remove all citadels from ships, and replace all shells with HE. On top of that, the introduction of Conqueror heals, and making every ship have equal stats in dimensions, concealment, gun angles, you name it.

      EDIT: I don’t understand why people keep making the “percentage of all ships are radaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr” argument, as if there were a large percentage of ships in the game that were trash, no one would play them! It is not down to a simple 50% ships are radarrrrr = 50% of all ships encountered in battle have radarrrrr. It is down to player choice, and what is best suiting the meta.

    • Kelvin Lam nailed it with his comment. Radar doesn’t make the game stagnant any more than walls of skill do.

    • Pretty much all RADAR cruisers have to do is sit behind an island, completely immune to torpedoes and gunfire, and poof, the cap they’re sitting next to (or even the two caps next to them) are completely inaccessible to anyone. You seem to have this weird misconception that if a DD is behind an island he is completely invisible, since there are so many things to counter DDs.

      What is it with people who constantly complain that DDs would simply be just ridiculously overpowered, and that their “walls of skill” are just too strong, if it weren’t for RADAR? You have RADAR that is an instant “fuck you” to, well, anyone, but primarily DDs, within 10-12 kilometers of you. You have SONAR, which *also* works to see through islands, spots both DDs *and* their torpedoes, nullifying their “walls of skill.” You have the Vigilance skill. You have the Target Acquisition skill. The latter two stack with each other and Vigilance stacks with SONAR. Japanese DDs? Get fucked, mate. Shimakaze “walls of skill” are a thing of the past if you have even three brain cells (though since most people who complain about them are BBabies…). You have Fighter and Scout planes (the latter of which fly further away from your ship which can spot torps sooner). You have a skill to double planes that get sent up for a makeshift SONAR. You have CVs, which while admittedly small in number, *was supposed to be one of their primary duties.* Maneuvering even slightly will cause most torpedoes fired at you to miss. You have torpedo bulges to reduce damage and flooding chance, sometimes capable of removing up to 50% of damage and become almost immune to flooding (fun fact, the stealthiest torpedoes also do some of the least amount of damage – those IJN torpedoes that hit like a truck are spotted from the moon and back). BBs have heals to help recover from torpedoes and flooding. Cruisers have heals as well. Some DDs even have heals, because why not.

      Players have literally so many counters to DDs in the game currently that it forces DDs to play extremely passively, being ultra miserly with their HP and consumable usage, being entirely selfish with their target choice, because otherwise they get blapped. DDs are more often these days being forced to play more like a Shimakaze, widely and rightfully regarded as the worst tier X DD in the game due to the complete ineffectiveness of the back-line torpedo spammer. Go ahead and keep saying that DDs currently just have one too many cards stacked in their favour – not only are you flat out wrong, it just goes to show that some people will say anything to keep their battlewagons scratch free.

      Before the USN CLs DDs were already dying off. UK CLs saw to that. Pan-Asian DDs saw to that. DDs already have so many counters it isn’t even funny anymore.

      Noobtotale, the problem with your complaint about percentages is that, very obviously, player choice is “let’s bring all these RADAR ships!” Especially when the MM, WG’s most retarded failure, will not and cannot balance the number of RADAR ships per team. So from tiers VII to X 20% of ships have RADAR, and *all* of them are on the enemy. That’s even worse than splitting them between the teams because at least then both teams have instant *kill DDs* buttons. The meta is “fuck DDs” and the way people repeatedly complain about DDs being super ultra mega overpowered, especially IJN DDs (for _some_ reason) despite being nerfed into the dirt, the meta will continue to be “fuck DDs” but to an even bigger scale. And all DD players will be able to complain, but be met with “but muh walls of skill” or “but muh no citadel” despite the former being nowhere near as effective as it was back in closed beta, and the latter not mattering when the entire enemy team is shooting you.

    • 1. FYI: I have never said DD’s were OP.

      2. “You seem to have this weird misconception that if a DD is behind an island he is completely invisible, since there are so many things to counter DDs.” When did I even mention that? Top tip: read my comments before answering!!!

      3. Just because another line as been added to the game, which does the same thing as other lines to DD’s, doesn’t make the game harsh for DD’s. Players who choose USN CA’s or RN CL’s will *(maybe)* choose the USN CL’s. No more players will choose them over the other lines. If too many people choose radar ships, more players will be unwilling to sacrifice other perks on ships to have radar, as other teammates will have it anyway. So the amount of radar will equalise. Very similar to *basic* economics.

      4. The problem with your argument about their complete invulnerability to fire, sitting behind islands, is that many islands are hard to manipulate, or nonexistent (cough, Okinawa). Just because some caps are known to have good camping spots for radar ships does not mean you cannot take this into account, and counter play. It just means you have to play tactically. Camping behind islands often (does not mean all the time) means that the radar ships themselves are unable to fire over, and so *rely* on their teammates to kill the capping DD just as much as you rely on yours to focus them down.

      5. Torpedo spotting by planes got nerfed. Spotter planes although they fly out further, are for a very short duration, and cover a very small area at a time due to their *very* slow airspeed. Most people run spotter because they *need* the range boost. Not to spot torps (lol y tho?). CV’s need a rework, permanently spotting DD’s by hovering planes over them is *not* fun.

      6. Torpedo bulges. Ships that have them, need them. Don’t cherrypick Yamato’s 50% reduction- she needs it. 10% slower than any other BB, has a citadel (wow), and is forced into bow in defensive play. Something that is easily countered by flanking DD’s.

      7. ERMAGEWD! So many counters! Like how planes counter ships firing behind islands? Or how a Hindy can counter a Moskva? Or how a Zao can counter number of pushing BB’s? Or how a Republique can counter a Hindy? Or how Zao can be countered by HE spam? Or how a maneuverable HE spammer can counter Republique? Please, this game was made on counter play.

      8. * Insert smoke meta here *- Radar and hydro are the few counters to smoke. What’s more passive than radar spamming? (at least it can be used offensively) Smoke meta!

      9. IJN DD’s need rework. I agree.

      10. Mind the language, please. I’ll ignore the “Get fucked, mate.”

  13. I would say, make a limit in the matchmaking. Not more than 2/3 radars in a match. I think that’s fair .

  14. There’s a clear issue with radar, and WG is trying to address it without moving to a new game engine that would stop radar from going through islands. Zoup is saying that players should adapt to the existence of radar, but not that radar ships should adapt to the (potential) existence of a counter to radar. If chaff existed already, would Zoup be telling radar ships to adapt? I don’t think that his was a well-thought out argument.

    • I’d bet these were forum user posts, these fella can jump with all the weird ideas on why things can or cannot work…..

      I’ll tell you why WG haven;t done anything about radar issue: they are balancing their game by data sheets.
      that’s right and they have admitted it openly – for them radar is no issue, because radar equipped ships stats are varying out of rest of ships by a margin bigger than they assumed proper.

      they implemented radar because their data have said that certain DD stats got out of assumed norms and then looked onto forums in search why it could be a thing – they have found out cruiser complaining about lack of tools to hunt for DDs so they went for cheapest and easiest way to “fix” that – gave them module being basically long range short duration sonar and called it a day.

      hydro throught islands was not that huge of an issue usually because there isn’t all that much of islands in the game small enought to hydro to get throught that range and high enought to cover that LoS without it – also for most cruisers hydro competes with DefAA consumable.

      now competes for a slot with radar? spotter plane – and it isn’t really much of rocket science to decide which one is superior choice.

      ironic part in here is that some time ago when smoke screen acted as LoS blocker only one could wonder if engine can distinguish smoke screen from island (in which case indeed slapping LoS restriction on radar would defeat it’s purpose in countering smoke screens) but ever since smoke screens changes that made it only slap detectability range bonuses this case is no more. and if radar had LOS restriction this would bring back purpose of scout plane back to cruisers – to allow vision throught hard cover which leads to much healthier situation of balance of spotting tools.

      too bad WG does not want to listen >.>

    • Trejgon sounds like you’re quoting forum user posts bloke.

    • unfortunatelly – no information about WG making balance decisions solely on their datasheets has been provided numerous times in the past by WG community managers :/

    • I firmly believe radar spam is bad for the game. I propose they should either remove the module that extends its’ duration, increase the cool down timers, number of radars, or lower the time of effect for the radar.

      “Fixing” radar by making it line of sight based will be highly detrimental to radar cruisers, as they rely on cover as many radar ships are squishy, with exceptions to Moskva, but that’s another story, as her radar is short, and mostly not too effective at killing DD’s in its time span, so it is more an “intel gathering” radar. Lets not forget that misplaying in many of the radar cruisers often means death, lack of impact, or wasted radar.

      The argument that most radar ships would not willingly forgo radar for any other consumable is fairly dubious, as this is how many builds are in WoWs- should I forgo fire prevention on my commander for survivability expert on my Yamato? I thought not. Perhaps we need a greater diversity of builds for ships in the future? Maybe, but just because they may not forgo radar, does not mean that it is OP, it just means it is generally accepted as a better option.

    • issue is that as it is now radar can be spammed from complete safety and that’s half of what makes it broken.

      also don’t compare captain skills to consumables in here: but since you wanted that yamato brought in – it is not such a straight go-to situation wether you bring spotter plane or fighter plane.
      it is not straight go-to way between sonar and defAA

      misplaying in DDs nowadays mean death and no impact so tell me more about those poor radar cruisers >.>

  15. I assume by “change your playstyle”, you mean, “don’t play the objective or spot, and play like a Shimakaze”. Okay.

    • Dude, if there are a lot of radar ships on an enemy team, or you spot just the only one on their team at the cap you were heading towards, there’s no hard and fast rule that demands that you get on that cap. Taking a cap in the first few minutes is NOT a requirement! Dying just for the sake of a cap is a really stupid thing early in a battle. Just try to spot enemy DDs on the cap so that your team mates can engage him or you can send torps at him. Or try to spot enemy heavies and send torps at them. If you feel that radar is preventing you from playing in a really hardcore aggressive DD playstyle, too bad. It’s up to you to adapt and overcome, not up to WG to cater to your unwillingness to change with the changing times.

    • That’s pretty much what is happening now.

    • Shimas… grrrrr

  16. you have convinced me, no more caps. max range wall of skill only.

  17. I’ll disagree here zoup.
    radar as it is now has no counterplay and while I am unsure if “chaff” would be a good way to remedy this, but counterplay to radar is necessary.

    and before anyone jumps out with “hurrdurr there is counterplay just don’t be there”:
    no single consumable should be capable of creating a 20km diameter no zone to the whole TYPE of ships with no risk attached and no counterplay to hinder it’s efficiency.
    I’ll drag in here example from older flamus vid “des moines, high impact ship” – in this video flamu as a des moines BY HIS OWN denied a cap zone to whole division. WHOLE. DIVISION. that’s simply too much power given to a single camping vessel in position where no one can even think of attacking it.

    now onto your argument about all DDs effected being able to engage from outside of the radar range with only ways they cannot being by choice. that’s bullcrap. Radars starts as early as t7, at t8 they are common encounter and you know what? alot of DDs on these tiers do not have even a single torp choice exceeding 10km. and even ontop of that 2 out of 3 variants of kagero hull in game does not have ANY weapon system exceeding 10km range. (3rd one has 20km superdeepwater torps that were some sort of WGs brainfart)

    and I have personally encountered multiple times by now in both harekaze and akizuki, where for whole match I couldn’t do ANYTHING due to multiple radar ships camping in certain positions behind islands locking me out of options. single radarboat isn’t much of issue 2 of them starts getting problematic but 5 of them is unplayable.

    oh speaking od akizuki – good luck relocating anywhere with this one – especially with 3 radarships timing their radars for constant light up.

    and I completely love how you say that you can with no issue enjoy DD playstyle despite those radars…..

    when in your last activity feeds only destroyers I have noticed you playing is gearing, better gearing. an Zwhateveritwas.
    which are arguably LEAST affected destroyers in all of this.

    • I have a problem with,
      “no single consumable should be capable of creating a 20km diameter no zone to the whole TYPE of ships with no risk attached and no counterplay to hinder it’s efficiency.”
      if you are talking about radar. There is quite a bit of risk playing radar cruisers. High tier maps such as Okinawa are testament to this. Misplaying in a radar ship can mean wasted radar, or death from focus fire.

      There is radar counterplay: baiting out radar, making the radar useless by manipulating islands to block incoming fire, etc. On top of that, many radar ships are squishy, with exceptions to Moskva, but that’s another story, as her radar is short, and mostly not too effective at killing DD’s in its time span.

      I firmly believe radar spam is bad for the game. I propose they should either remove the module that extends its’ duration, increase the cool down timers, number of radars, or lower the time of effect for the radar.

    • risks when playing radar cruisers is abysmal compared to risk playing any DD especially in todays high tier meta. not once not twice I have encountered situation when 3 radar cruisers were capable of denying 2/3rd of a map (two caps) without ever leaving cover and exposing themselves to return fire

      and hugging island as close as possible in hope that no enemy decided to go for flanking move while being constantly radared is not exacly “impacting” a game – heck it isn’t even fun.

      now about your suggested counterplays: baiting out is rarely feasible option and requires alot of setup to not end up with your DD on the bottom of the sea, and manipulating islands… no just no. on every map there are spots where radar cruiser can camp with his team lemmingtraining in a way that makes it impossibleto you to utilise ANY sort of hard cover.

    • on a note: let’s grab another consumable and counterplays available to comparision: smoke screen
      firstly badly deployed smoke screen blinds you and your team – misuse is actually detrimental instead of just being “not-as-good-as-it-could-be”
      secondly – flooding smoke screen with torpedoes
      thirdly – radar, pushing into that smoke with sonar

  18. Well take the ability of radar to go through solid rock and add ground clutter too. Radar spamming is BAD right now.

    • SonOfAB_tch2ndClass

      I would say yes but the smoke nerf happened so deal with it.

    • I’d agree. Why the hell is radar based on 1 ship able to see around islands. That’s not how radar functions lol

    • I would like to ctrl c + p a comment below here by kelvin Iam that sums this up:

      “look at every ship that has “strong” radar. None of them can take hit very well and get farmed out super fast. We are not counting moskava here since 20second radars are not an issues to most dds. making radar line of sight would force said squishy cruisers to get infront of the big battle ship guns and take overpens and cits. suddenly playing a radar crusier is not great unless you open water and again squishy crusiers dont take hit very well. you also give dds absolute dominance over islands and everyone but the dds will avoid them like a plague. anti radar and or hydro is a weird gimmick that also give immunity to pushing dds as there is no way to see them coming. you want passive game play? make everyone afraid of getting close to a cap cuz a dd can hide behind an island and torp from stealth or they have a consumable that make them invisible to the only few counters to smoke.”

      Granted, Moskva has 11.7 km radar range, but she is spotted from the moon, and has counters to her tankiness (being teammates focus firing her, just like how radar relies on teammates to focus fire.) If you want a ship without a counter, you are asking for another Belfast situation.

      Radar spamming is bad. It can slow down the pace of the game, and create a camp fest- so as a possible audit, lengthen the cooldowns for radar, or shorten the radar time.

    • Robert Hale He probably doesn’t really play dds to much. Radar has promoted camping for everyone, i dont like being radar spotted through solid cover trying to sneak up on a battleship in my fletcher.

  19. The counter to radar is a team that push. Radarships don’t have time for that with BB-Shell flying by the ears.

  20. “Stop trying to make the game adapt to you and learn to adapt to it.” The same argument can be made against you Zoup. Learn to adapt to chaff and stop trying to make the game adapt to you.

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