Okay, today’s title is a bit of a stretch, you’re just going to have to stick around to hear the explanation, but it’s going to be worth it.
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I think you have a few facts wrong about the Tillman designs. Drach has a really good video on the subject.
Drach has a really good video on everything he covers.
@Vinny Ganzano very true
No one cares
I care, mind pointing out specifically what was wrong in this video?
@imaK Tillman didn’t design the ship’s, he just forced the Navy too. He wouldn’t shut up about not wanting incrementally bigger ships just build the biggest possible right now.
Actually Jingles…. Tillman didn’t design the battleships, he just ordered the bureau of construction to draw them up as “maximum battleships”. And I do believe that the need to balance them cut down on some of the ridiculousness when they ended up in world of warships. I don’t see no sextuple sixteen inch gun mounts.
@vtr0104 The Tillman designs weren’t slow by 1910’s standards. It’s just that the game puts them against the fast battleships of the WW2 era.
As for the number of guns: a BB duel is not going to be over in a few minutes, unless you happen to hit a magazine (or when you are fighting someone *cough* British battlecruisers at Jutland *cough* who decided that ammunition safety is for cowards). More guns = more damage = shorter fight = less opportunity for the enemy to hurt you.
As an aside: the Kansas actually isn’t a Tillman design, but a real (if unfinished) ship-class: the 1920 South Dakota design. It’s been given a speculative WW2 refit, but you can still recognize the weird side-stepping funnel. (IIRC it also has the same guns as the Colorado, as opposed to the 16′ 50-calibers it was supposed to get.)
I believe only the Minnesota is based on a Tillman design – the Vermont is “inspired by” but not actually a Tillman.
@atigerclaw Especially as when the next step in the arms race enters service last years ships become expensive targets.
Though to be honest based on Drach’s video’s a real maximum battleship would probably be 4 quad turrets with 20inch guns and be the size of a Forrestal aircraft carrier.
@RedXlV Sextuple turrets with a rate of fire of one salvo every 2-3 minutes!
I mean quad turrets with 13inch, 14inch and 15inch were problematic enough but sextuple at 16inch just ouch.
It makes sense that they went for 18inch for the last designs especially as the South Dakota design with 12, 16inch guns started at this time.
One thing I did not know till recently is that when the New Mexico class was being designed there were two 16inch armed designs with layouts similar to the New York classes just with the midships turret at deck level or raised with a taller barbet.
Just imagine if the US laid down 16inch gun armed ships in 1915 and with 10 guns each! no way the RN doesn’t respond much sooner maybe with 16.5 inch gun armed ships being laid down in 1916 or 17 and the same with Japan with the Nagato’s becoming Tosa’s or Kii class.
@vtr0104 Every single Tillman design was actually above 25 knots, with some being above 26 knots, and one being 30 (!) knots. In actuality the Vermont is heavily nerfed from the Tillman designs. She is closest to Tillman design I, with an upgunning from 4×3 406 mm to 4×3 457 mm, but trading that off by going from 26.5 knots to 23 knot and going from 18 inch belt to 12 inch belt. A buff to 26.5 knots would make the Vermont very competitive.
How the hell does a sextuple 16″ gun mount work? 2×3? Because 1×6 would be WAY too wide for practical purposes.
“…the Östergotland popped his smoke…” Think that one through again Jingles. Also, I would not recommend using the Smolensk style broadsiding method with the minotaur as it has more than enough armour to arm even 18″ shells. He just got very unlucky with the dispersion on those volleys.
I was just about to comment on that…. 🤣🤣🤣
I was going to say the same thing. From the map and volume of incoming fire it looks like it was actually their other minotaur.
I was “the other Mino” on the opposing team and it was my smoke. I popped my smoke and farmed the Vermont for a while. We lost but I had a decent game.
The Östergötland finds his brave pants, pops his smoke, and starts adding to his misery 😀
Never change, Jingles.
Edit: Also an obligatory Gneisenau bash with a picture of Bayern :DD
This was right after 9:34 too.
*dmg goes from 128,000 to 173,000*
Jingles: “A cheeky 70 thousand damage!” 🤣🤣
@iambiggus Yeah, devstriking a Roon for 70k 😀
“Edit: Also an obligatory Gneisenau bash with a picture of Bayern :DD”
Yeap, it is jingles, after all, miss-identifying ships is a given perk
I literally came to make this comment about the gneisenau. But knew someone had to beat me to it😄
I played Vermont one day, and someone on my team said “Why would anyone ever play Vermont?”
I said, “It has the accuracy of Slava, and punishing power of Shikishima… when it hits…..”
As I get a Dev Strike on a Roon, 24 seconds into the game
“Oh…” replied my teammate
reported for cheating 🙂 24 seconds might be the shell traveltime at max range. but you have reload first..
It also has the speed and agility of a dead goldfish weighed down with concrete, the size of Jupiter and the armour of said dead goldfish. ;D
Maybe not a completely flawless comparison, but I see ships like this (Vermont; great guns but terrible platform) as an equivalent to things like the Jagdtiger or FV4005 in WoT. If they didn’t have terrifying guns, they’d likely be unplayable, but because they _do_ there’s still the “oh shit” factor that makes them slightly less terrible vehicles.
Actually Jingles, at 13:50 that’s the Östergotland torp, based on the spread and dmg.
The mino torp comes after.
Yeah, he “rolled up” that Chaos champion.
I had a friend like that, too. Weirdly, he never rolled up such a powerful character when someone else watched his rolls.
Yes, I remember the Chaos Army story, just not sure which video it was in. If I remember correctly you were lucky enough to be the first to face off against the Chaos army with your Warhammer “French” army. Which then led to your army behaving as one would expect from the French, which earned you ridicule until your friends also had to fight against the Chaos army and suffered the same fate.
@Redeyes0815 I’m not sure where it came from either. It’s true that the French were overrun very quickly in France, but that has nothing to do with their fighting prowess. It was far more to do with poor leadership, planning and implemetation from higher up. Without the aid and resistance of the Fench Army, we would never have been able to get the 335,000 troops off at Dunkirk. Plus a lot of people forget that France as a whole, suffered terrible casualties during WWI – more than 1 million killed, which was the second highest casualty rate of the Allied powers (24%), only beaten by the Russians. For the French it was the loss of generations and it took place only 20years before. It’s not really a surprise that the people in power wished to avoid such a tragedy occurring again.
I once fought a Brettonian (“French” for the uninitiated) army using my Dwarfs. He’d brought all the ranged protection in the book, and didn’t look at my magic items very closely, in round 2 I charged him and destroyed all of his grails and most of his knights of the realm and he surrendered xD Most fun game I ever had w my dwarfs.
I think Jingles had said that story in 2 or 3 vids….On I want to say was on a work shop wednesday when he was showing the little barbarians he was painting….
@Earthen Jadis yup us Brits are an arrogant lot just look at Brexit we can do it better on our own Russia invades we hide behind Nato instead of declaring war when Poland got invaded in 39 yup us Brits are great bullshitters regrettably and the best bullshitter our beloved leader Boris the bodger Johnson
@Earthen Jadis so cute, little frogs getting all defensive about their cowardice and ineptitude, lol
I think what we can take away from the Vermont is the fact that so long as a design is great at fulfilling it’s primary purpose (destroying the enemy using it’s guns for a battleship), then the design is great at fulfilling the role it was designed for. And let’s be fair: the engagements in World of Warships are basically optimised towards meeting a battleship’s ‘perfect operating conditions’.
Because you don’t have to worry about things such as land-based air, operating away from your bases, finding the enemy to engage them, getting within gun range of the enemy to engage them, being able to chase down the enemy to destroy them when they start fleeing…
Just look at the aircraft carriers for example. Sure, they’re unbalanced as they are now. But they’re drastically nerfed compared to how they should be operating. After all, if an aircraft carrier is within visual range aka within the horizon of a battleship or enemy fleet… Then that aircraft carrier is WAY too close for comfort.
I agree with you, but this is an arcade game, not a simulator.
@Arisudev but aren’t games meant to be fun? I don’t think anyone can seriously say carriers make the game fun. Hell, submarines are already ruining games with their bullshit, carriers have copped that flak (pun intended) ever since they were first introduced, but back then they were more balanced, considering you could actually de-plane them back then and can’t now, partly because the carrier rework pretty much nerfed AA fire, but mostly because carriers now have unlimited aircraft.
Did I hear correctly, Jingles calling the last citadel on the Minotaur a “pitydel”. 😂
Yep that is what he always calls them when the last batch of shells will kill the ship regardless, WG gives a citadel… hence “pitadel”
It’s a common word among WoWS community members
Correction: it was designed *_for_* a guy who knew nothing about battleships.
Basically, Senator Tillman was looking over budget proposals for the US navy and was getting frustrated with the fact that the Navy was asking for ever-higher budgets in order to build bigger and bigger battleships. So he decided to see if it was economically feasible to simply build the biggest thing the navy could ask for, bigger than anything they could build docks for for at least a decade, and thus preempt their requests for more pocket change.
The Navy, seeing this as their best shot at actually getting a decent budget out of the famously tight-arsed Congress, gave him the biggest thing they could come up with. He looked over what they gave him, decided it might go over well with Congress, and presented it… right before the US entered WW1. No surprise that went nowhere!
What? A smart politician?
@WarNock07 no. Not a smart politician. Look up Drach’s video on the Tillman battleships.
@Logan B Here is said video’s link
I remember my son playing against his friends chaos army with a lizardmen army, my son pulled off an insane amount of high rolls with a unit of skinks and routed a unit of chaos knights. That one never got lived down.
My roommate Brian had “the great bear” in his chaos army. We all hated fighting against that darn thing. He routed my space wolves marines in our first fight, that
The start of this video with the Vermont was just loaded with memes and giggles. Classic Jingles. These WOWS videos of Jingles are currently the thing that keeps me going and helps me forget about everything. Thank you Jingles
Ah, the battleship whose sole gimmick is to hit people really, really hard with one volley. Well, it’s fun when it works!😅
I always love the way jingles explains things lmao. I laughed when he said he might get sued by garbage when comparing it to Vermont lol
One of the best views I ever saw was in the state of Vermont.
Early morning, sun rising behind the mountains, with the fog filling the valleys between three peaks! All outside of a rest stop, just this amazingly beautiful view!
“Actually, Jingles…” Heaviest throw weight of a broadside goes to the Colombo, simply for having 16 main guns. even if they don’t do much of an alpha strike individually, it has enough guns to cinch the heaviest broadside title from the Vermont by 3k. BUT, you often see Vermont hitting harder because of the 457’s. Vermont’s broadside: 189,000. Colombo’s broadside with AP: 192,000. Colombo’s broadside with SAP: 200,000.
4:19 the most dangerous thing that an Incomparable can do, is to get AT ALL spotted during the first few minutes of a battle. Lots of hungry battleships waiting to do plunging fire.