First look at the CV rework, things definitely look interesting. I offer some of my initial thoughts, but I’m very excited. Things look like it’s going in the right direction.
this will for sure make me try carriers again
ill be happy to train u with current carriers if u want…they r fun if u use them well 😉
Same here. Might try again my Ranger after very long time. I was tired of bird-view gameplay.
aboomination ”for two hours and then you’ll be bored.” Many of us are bored of this current gameplay, and this new in work looks much more fun.
+Ivan Škaro Ranger is pretty weak and hard to play especially vs op premiums…
Might make me quit them.
Man this looks… Horrible… And there are so many glaring issues… How will you defend your CV? How will you dodge torps? How does the summon fighters work? Why can’t I summon a bloody hydra when I can magically summon fighters?
The only redeeming factor is that it is pre alpha… And we have to be loud in order to be heard
ditching RTS gameplay . Thats fucking Good. Theres games for RTS and theres games as a Wows
Agreed Hopelek. They should just pull CV’s out… it would be better than this garbage.
the concept of squad like that is stupid …. WOW is dieing. Playing CV is difficult. And then what? Everybody without brain will be able to use it and do dmg? that’s a shame really. No strategy with that plan…. all of this because people say CVs are OP… just play one and u’ll see if it is
TLDR: if you get ambushed you deserve to die.
That said fuckheads who prefer RTS in WoWS deserve to be banned perminantly.
Realistically speaking, you’re not going to do four full runs on anyone with their AA on. The times in the demonstration where AA is on, the planes eat damage like crazy. So while four runs sounds fantastic, most likely you’re only going to get off two or three, if you can even get that third run off with a full squad.
You also have to take into account that the planes in the vid are Midway planes. Lower tier CV will have fewer and weeker planes.
rampageTG They can easily balance it by separating Torpedo Bomber floodings from Ship-Torp floodings and tune damage/duration as needed.
but there is also lower tier aa down there
I’d say hit one ship and cheer the flooding, zoom to another, drop, then go back to the first one. Damage control now on cool down, drop again and watch it flood to death while you zoom back to your second target. Rinse and repeat. And the video shows planes dropping so close a BB has no hope of dodging. I can see the whiny DD drivers screaming about those rockets setting them on fire and unable to dodge them like they do nearly everything else.
As for AA. Well CV players adore the low to mid level tiers with their very limited AA so I guess we’ll see those tiers flooded with CV’s Maybe there should be an option to click telling Match Maker not to put you in a game with CV’s, especially on low tiers where you have little defence against them.
From what I understand you can only have 1 squadron up at a time. If you want a follow up attack you have to rely on your 2nd CV player. I also heard that we can now have more than 2 CVs in a team. Hence the 1 squadron per CV at any one time. So with 1 CV, we will have 1 squadron in the air, with 2 CVs we have 2 squadrons and so on. They want to elimante the ability of CV players to be in 2 places at the same time.
10 out of 10 will try CVs if the rework stays on course to implement these changes. I could care less about the fact that CVs will be “dumbed down.” Truthfully, this is exactly what CVs needed in order to be user friendly for new players and those unfamiliar with CV gameplay. Great job, WG! It’s looking good so far! +1
only smart players can play CVs…the masses want CVs that can be played by not smart players too! damm i think ill miss my good old CVs 🙁 its so fun to wreck the enemy CV and his team LOL. it is bad when your own CV is pathetic though…
Say CV again.
cobrazax It will be like arty in WoT with this, the RTS aspect was just way better since my brain was running 4x more than on any other shipclass, you had to think way more and be more flexible, this RN is just like driving a BS, minor things to do and not very challenging
totally agree. carriers are meant to be played strategically. its a different gameplay and it made it so unique as its inside WOWS. its an integral part of the game, but so much more… i do play CVs to relax as i rarely face a CV player that can match my skill level. sometimes i do and then its anything BUT relaxing LOL. its actually exciting and VERY demanding! fighting a good saipan player with my Kaga…was damm hard
It looks…meh. The skill ceiling looks to have been sat on by the world’s fattest man, and so the new CV playstyle looks open to even the most potato of player.
That’s not necessarily bad – God only knows that plenty of awful CV drivers are out there right now (and always on your team, not the enemy’s), and all they ever do is feed a competent CV opponent. This may at least give them a chance to do something in the match.
However, I do think it’s mostly bad. This is about the most polar opposite possible to the current CV playstyle, and I just can’t see any of the skilled CV drivers staying around for it. Honestly, I know I certainly wouldn’t give it a try – there just doesn’t seem to be much of anything that the CV player has to do that involves ‘skill.’ You see a ship, you press the ‘engage’ button, you dodge the lil’ black puffs until the target fills your screen, then you fire. There’s no coordination of squadrons across the map, no timing of individual drops required to guarantee a hit, nothing. Of course, this is only an ‘alpha’ of the CV rework, but it certainly looks awfully boring right now.
Admittedly, from what I’ve heard it sounds like the AA fire used in the video was drastically turned down from normal gameplay AA, so there might actually be some challenge in getting through flak to strike the target. Yet if AA was murderous enough that just living long enough to get bombs/torps/rockets away required skill, then all of the potato CV drivers would just keep throwing their planes away on straight-in runs and whine on the forums about how hard CVs are post-rework.
I dunno, this just doesn’t feel like a step forwards to me. Maybe not a step backwards, but definitely a slap in the face to the current CV drivers who actually put time & effort into learning how to win against the clunky UI and the ever-growing AA threat.
Honestly, the main points I wanted from the CV rework were to A) raise the skill floor for playing CV while maybe lowering the ceiling slightly, and B) drastically boost the credit reward for playing air-supremacy CV. Make it so that a CV’s main incentive is to keep bombers off of his teammates (but also that a merely-average CV driver still has a fighting chance against a unicum).
+Fjarron Ars team play?! You must not be familiar with Warships . 😉
Well WG basically said they could care less about current CV players…so there’s that.
+Tom Voke Best third grade answer.
+asaeampan No it’s jerks like you that are the problem. Bet you cry every time a CV hits you.
you do realize this make it worse for everyone that was complaining about CV not helping the team right? Now a CV player will literally be unable to help. The only thing they will be able to do is farm damage. The enemy cv will be free to plane spam you and your CV will not be able to do anything other than summon magical fighters that appear and do….something. You can’t even ask for fighter support. All you’ll be able to do is ask them to push their magical fighter button and hope the AI will RNG the fighters to help you. CV are not going to be the ones crying.
Well if we are thinking realistically, this make battles like real life where ships need to be near each other which results in teamwork but would be a big change in gameplay if that happened. Also this is why Carriers sailed with the fleet in real life so then they are protected while they can do multiple strikes on ships attacking allies.
(but in real life carriers are going to be hundreds of kilometer away from each other)
Best make it ship verse ship with no cap circles. For cv battles
+•_Lumia Art_• That would actually make the game historically accurate :p
Well, seeing what Japan would get since they have no rocket planes would be interesting
The one way to nerf the multiple attacks, is to reduce the flooding and fire chances
they already made flooding chances pretty bad…especially if u hit good torp protection like yamato
they want to eliminate alpha strikes.
It makes you work like a DD but in the air. You have three options, like HE/AP/Torps being Rockets, Bombs and Torps. Is not that bad.
Your right it’s not bad… It’s horrible. so gimmicky..
WoWs is gimmicky. Whats the point you are tying to make?
What about having multiple squadrons in the air at the same time? That goes away? CV’s are flexible, having their fighters to attack multiple targets and be effective in varying conditions. This… removes that flexability? 🙁
summon fighter sounds ultra stupid…and it has nothing CLOSE to the skill level that was shown in current fighter combat. CVs were very skill based and if you learned to play them well, u were rewarded a lot. tuning it down a bit would be fine to not make it too strong, as well as adding that stronger AA over time to help DDs, but this is just dumbing it down completely.
you can easily counter that counter by making AA go back to normal GRADUALLY so u dont leave AA for a sec to make AA weak again. DD spotting is normal while perma spotting is NOT. you can also reduce plane spotting ranges even more to make it more balanced.
@KineticRhyme You still can if your strike squadron is in the same vicinity, by calling your fighters to your side. You just can’t do it over separate regions of the map and have total air superiority…WG wants to minimize CVs having the ability to scout and attack multiple parts of the map at the same time.
it still sounds very stupid and makes no sense
Multiple squadrons mean multiple CVs. I heard that 1 CV can only have 1 squadron in the air at a time. So if your team have 2 CVs, you will have 2 squadrons (from each CV). I also heard they are allowing more than 2 CVs in a team.
Where is the multitasking? where is the skill in this?
I like Navyfield and playing Cv is totally different. its like being a sniper in a same game but different style
you mean an arcade mini game.. I think..
NotseFFS barby cacke decoration
How about you eat a dick you bitch ass. Seriously your ‘skill’ you wanted caused the incredibly damaging skill gap.
RTS is crap 😀
What I don’t want to see, is a return to the state of affairs we had for a time in CBT, where carriers were so powerful that both teams huddled together, like two schools of anchovys, just to keep from getting nuked by aircraft, and the ONLY viable build for BB’s and cruisers was for Max AA rating. 4 attacks per squadron – yes, I can see permafloods and permafires becoming a thing if they’re not careful how they set this up. Then, unlimited hangar capacity, and the possibility of 3 man carrier divs – IOW, no matter how many planes I’d manage to shoot down, there’s the real possibility that I could spend an entire 20 minute match under constant air attack by a 3 man division that coordinates and staggers their attacks. That leaves the only real possibility of eliminating such attacks to be sinking the carrier – and I saw no mention anywhere if this is even possible, if the carrier would even be on the map at all. Granted, this is still in development, and the final version may be something I can easily live with, but I’ll say this – if it gets to the point that I’m routinely doing nothing in a match, other than dodging torpedo, bomb, and rocket attacks, and the only shooting I’m doing is trying to knock down the next wave of planes – I can think of other more enjoyable ways to entertain myself.
They mentioned it several times in the stream and I thin it’s the most important part of it: This is an idea, the important part is the feedback on the concept, not on any number that might be extracted from the images. I like CV gameplay now even though I’m still awful at it, but I do agree that the way is designed a good CV player can influence the match way more than any good player of any other class in the game. He might even outweight various good players in the other side. While realisticly CVs did have that influence on ending the battleship era due to it’s long range striking power and coverage, translating that air superiority effect to the game is detrimental, as you’re affecting a match not on the colective efforts and decisions of the team, but sometimes on which team got the good CV player.
I like the idea of a more action oriented CV play, and I think it fits the design of the game better. I’m waiting to see further developement, since it still has some flaws (For example, if a DD sneaks to the CV while you’re controlling the squad, how can you try to dodge torps), but I’m really interested on seeing what this new path brings to the table.
Also, they teased about new CV lines and my bet is: RN line with T8 HMS Ark Royal premium being the introducer of the new line.
being an aeronautical fan and committed engineer in flying…this is just misaligned. this is not CV command…this is squadron command, nothing to do with where the planes came from.
this is making an RPG out of a competitive tactical game…i know it’s fresh and plays to the stupidity level of american 4y olds, yet this is just lowering the standards below stupid.
there is no tactic in controlling a squad of 12 planes! nor does it help on a map so huge it takes minutes to fly it across with said squad.
i get the point where this “project” started, i see the resons for this way of implementing it, yet this game is not the place for it!
CV captains workload is way different, and should be played as such, not an RTS overmicromanaging bullshit, and neither is squad pilot action hero bullshit!
it’s more to do with sending scouting pairs to sectors(not pinpoint locations!), then when something is found, organising the loadout of squadrons to send (number and composition of fighter escort, attackers divers and torpedoplanes), sending them to said sector(or plotted probable course of enemy) with a peptalk, and directives for attitude(if you find BB torp it, if you find CA torp and bomb it, if you find DD bomb it, if you find CV disengage ETC.) and then letting them do their job as good as they can! and listening the radio for reports and call them back whenever required! the captain is a COMMANDER of flight squadrons, NOT A MANAGER!
yes i know the above would require a lot more AI coding, and creative thinking on the devs part, but it would be having it like it is…just like a normal warship commander is in charge of shooting where and when, and where to sail, CV captains have to stay within their role of commanding! some CV-s had 6-8 squadron flight managers on board FFS. let them do their work! 😀
and of course for me this would mean historical amounts of planes, and ammo&drop supplies on carriers, because frankly i want them to last at least 15minutes! 20 if you are using them sparingly! and that is the captain’s job! making sure the carrier can stay in the “fight” long enough, and support the sorrounding fleet enough without squandering it’s own resources of planes personel and munitions.
make this into the game and even tough AI and RNG will decide the actual damage done to opponent ships it will feel awesome and proper CV gameplay. because let’s face it, cannon shot spread is much the same with other ships, you have a random effect, you just point and click and the rest is decided by the numbers…YES you have to position tactically, yes you have to time and aim your clicks, but fron that point on you are just crossing fingers to get a score! so make that with CV the same!
the original RTS style went too deep into the above position-aim-click, allowing you to micromanage too much, like individual barrel elevations and angles, just ridiculus. so dial it back but NOT THIS MUCH!
thx for reading.
when you have a 100 planes and can only send 16plane squads…you won’t need those beverages, and alos ship spotting would be included of course…. but hey if you are a hammer you see everything as a nail i suppose.
don’t think how you can’t do it. think about how you CAN make it. then it all opens up the possibilities to NOT make you bored and drunk after a single battle 😀
+Márton Szabó my problem is that gamplay like that needs a completely diffrent kind of game. I do agree that a game like that could be pretty good, but redoing wows like that is simply not possible (i think the biggest problem is game time), howevere i have heard that iChase wants to do a realistic navy game and if you decide to propose this CV mechanic to him I’ll be the first to support you. Anyway, don’t have time right now to discuss this further cos timezones lul. P.S. the drinks were of course an exaggeration to illustrate a point that, in Wows specifically, gameplay like this would be boring. That said you are right, it could be fun like that, just in a completely diffrent game
this comment in my opinion is less involved than what the new proposed wg mechanic is. Its more management based which I know plenty of people like but im pretty sure wows is trying to make it more involved and similar to the other ship playstyles. with this testing mechanic, players are more closer to the fight than the top down table top we had before and while I do believe its dialed back from before I do see the entertainment in having to dodge attacks on the way to a strike and while fleeing afterwards. Trying to dodge attacks while still maintaining a good angle of attack may be difficult, I don’t know. But I think this has potential for the direction that wows wants to take it. testing definitely has to continue to make the gameplay involving and challenging. and the key here is challenging in a cv specific way. I don’t know the full gameplay of this current test to fully speak an opinion, just giving thoughts based on what ive seen here
Just try to keep in mind this game is a arcade game that is designened with gameplay not realisum in mind
appreciate your input stanislav, of course i agree, maybe i took it a bit too seriously, like i did with the whole game, and what i wrote would be better in a more sim-like game.
however i still feel that what we are presented in the video is ridiculus. yes it brings you closer to the “fight” makes it more “hands-on”, yet i see not much skill, and more like making the whole thing full of QTE and we all know anyone with 2 braincells and a healthy hand reflexes(plenty don’t have that) can master it very quickly.
also i do wonder, while you are guiding these planes with a 100% focus, what is going on at the CV? how often can you jump to the planes and back? and plenty other i wont write also because of my limited time.
anyway, thanks for the conversation guys, enjoy your day!
So World of Warplane like 3:20 – the rear view showing the ship/exposion….. like a mini nuke Looking forward to the closed beta Not expecting this out for 6 months, at least. The rockets look insane fire starters. The original stream suggested up to 3 CV’s per team,…. 6 CV in a game…..oh crap! BBs and CAs wll now be in groups for greater AA protection, DD’s are going to be screwed since they operate generally alone…..why……. greater acuracy by planes.
Finally a reason for team play … Lets hope there will be an (very) extended PT peroid (60 days or more) to polish things out and to voice our opinion BEFORE this goes live.
Ok so here is my constructive commentary.
As someone who has never played cv (but played a lot of RTS) and who held off trying CVs because I knew an update/rework was coming I’m astounded by the dramatic change they went with. To me this looks so boring because of the utter lack of skill and strategy involved. At WOW core it is a tactical game. Ship positioning and timing is such a key element to successfully winning a battle. This adds nothing to that element and arguably actually takes away from that because now there is no counter to a CV making you a target. With any other ship class you can go stealth and flee, turn and fight, kite away or reposition for a better angle of engagement. You can play defense and offense as needed to match the situation. Against this style of game play you are utterly at the mercy of being the target or not. You cannot reposition, flee, go stealth or counter attack. Worse still because they have infinite planes there is no concept of risk. In any other ship you have to balance position (present and future), potential damage, health total, vision etc versus risk. In this you can just go balls to the wall and if you lose your planes (which at this time looks very unlikely) you will be back on the target within a minute.
The torpedo planes seem completely broken. As a dd player I watched the ribbons and couldn’t believe the number of hits. All I could think was “how the hell do you dodge that?” And then worst of all even if you miss you get multiple attempts which means the ship you are targeting and lighting up will just become a beacon for any other ship for the full duration that you are around them. So not only does any other ship have to dodge your 2 minute runs but they also have to survive 2 minutes of other ships raining hell fire down on them. And what is the risk to you as a cv? Infinite planes, crap AA? If the ships huddle together then they become a torpedo heaven for CVs and DDs with little hope of survival.
Dive bombers actually look fun, there seems like an element of skill required here. What could balance them is once the dive begins then you are locked on that spot completely. That would make timing a real challenge and if you are losing the planes that are attacking then maybe your first dive fails completely because you out of planes. This could also add in what you talked about by deciding before you dive, how many planes to include in the dive run. Maybe because they are locked in they would become hyper sensitive to concentrated AA fire.
Rocket planes… um… I can not describe my distaste for this. It looks utterly broken with no element of skill. Those target areas are undodgeable to basically anything. I cannot even imagine how painful it would be to be on the receiving end of that. If they were also locked into their run then maybe it would add a predictive element of skill but short of that I cannot see a balance possibility with these planes.
Over all commentary: 1) unlimited planes is broken, unrealistic and without risk/reward 2) historically CVs were terrifying but not without their weaknesses. If wargaming included Limited flight range and fuel that might help balance risk/ reward as then CVs wouldn’t be able to park at the back of the map and farm for days without risk. It might actually make the blancing act of high risk/ high reward pretty fun as you would have to get into unique positions to avoid your ship being flanked/ spotted. 3) the AA will need significant reworking and I don’t think that allocating more micro management to the other ship captains will be a sound solution as it will detract from their game experience. They already have enough other things to do without being forced to now balance firing arcs of AA systems. 4) fire/flooding looks like it will become even more of an issue from CVs. Even a good dd player will struggle to get more that 5 floorings in a high tier match because of the volume of radar and hydro as well as the time lag between torp volleys. But the video is showing 10+ toro hits. Fire chance will now become utterly rediculous so that would need a full rework too.
Long story short this did not make me excited or even interested in CVs. Worse still it actually put me off WOW in general. I’ve played hundreds if not thousands of hours and have loved the challenge of learning how to become better at the nuances of the game. I’ve learnt how to handle cv cross drops, fire/flood timing and group defense. This undoes all those hours and asks me to reinvest hundreds more all while being able to do nothing about the biggest threat to my ship. What makes the most sense strategy wise now from this video is for the whole fleet to hug the CV and let them do the damage or for the fleet to move together and hunt the enemy CVs and then get on with the game as normal as soon as they are dead. Why would I risk flanking or capping if the CV is just going to farm me without recourse. I’m annoyed and disappointed. In its current form it might even cause me to quit playing WOWs completely which sucks because I really do love the game.
Wargaming, you make me sad.
Agreed Rory…. I never play CV’s…and this looks like garbage smartphone mini game…
you said everything ..
I totally agree with you on this. If this really happen ill uninstall my game too which is sad cause i put over 3 yrs into this game.. 🙁
This is absolute garbage. What a downgrade WG. Yes iChase, you’re right that carriers alpha strike was too much and that top down RTS was hard. But don’t you think that perhaps a plane fuel bar and lowered alpha on strike would have been a more sensible nerf. Or maybe fewer squadrons all together and maybe the omission of fighters and strafing all together.
Coming from a die hard cv player, I understand that the current system needed to be toned down a knotch but this feels like we’ve completely fallen off to POTATO land. But my biggest problem with cvs is not the gameplay but the toxicity from all the other players who simply don’t understand what the right solution is. Every game in a cv is like an audition for a talent show and if you do well you still get docked down by some judges but when you mess up the whole world hates you. All these crybabies that die to carriers or can’t play carriers just haven’t put in the effort find out that the RTS is conquerable. Removing carriers from the game is a bad idea but this rework almost seems worse.
I think this might make carriers more annoying on a 1 on 1 basis because they can just keep dropping armaments but that’s the thing, multi tasking and flexibility of any kind has just gone straight out the F****** WINDOW. There’s no more skill involved in carriers. Any potato can play war thunder and experience the same feeling as this now. CV players understand that a nerf is needed and expected a bit of a “face palm” change but this isn’t that. This is more of a drop kick out of the damn park.
What about all the cv enthusiasts and all the premium carriers, what’s the value now? Can I get a refund? Fara is gonna be pissed and so will all cv players.
WG b******* with carriers as they did with artillery in World of Tanks all I ever needed to do to close the skill gap with carriers was to get rid of the strafing Mechanic because that’s the biggest gap between players drop the Alfa on the strikes and give the planes of bigger HP pool this new system is a joke they’ve not gone to detail over the controls obviously you can control it with the keyboards but can you do it with the mouse if you prefer to use the mouse I doubt it you have to hit another button before you do you attack run but then does that mean that you can use the mouse to aim your shot or you got to change to the keys to fly the plane why they use the mouse to aim the shop this is a complete and utter shitshow
For your last point, here is something that MrConway himself said:
“We are planning compensation for every carrier – premium and tech-tree – if you do not like the new gameplay following the rework. Exactly what this compensation will look like and how it will work will be determined and announced closer to the release.
For now all of our efforts are focused on balancing and finishing the rework.”
I suggest taking it with a healthy dose of salt though
+GraveDigger more than likely I will be getting a lot of dabloons…
so no fighters? im up for it 😛
i know but i will feel nostalgic unless
You make a valid point about being able to make multiple torp passes per squadron, however I think the limiter there will be that you *have* to make multiple passes to launch all your torps, while you still have to expose your entire squadron to AA for each pass. This means it’s very possible you won’t be able to make multiple passes anyway, especially if there’s an AA cruiser nearby or other dedicated AA platform there to shred your squadron before they even get a chance to make an attack run. Since you have to make multiple attack runs, you also inherently need to hang around longer instead of being able to drop the full payload and run away back to the carrier, so even mediocre AA has the potential to prevent you from launching all your torps.
I’m definitely looking forward to seeing more of this system though, I think they’re definitely on the right track.
Thinking about it as well, if Long/medium range can be dodged but short range cannot then American Heavy cruisers lethality to aircraft just increased, especially if the carrier makes multiple attacks near them
what do you think that will happen if you use the nr of bombers of the Graff zep.
Torpedo planes also may not be as effective if this new AAA modes where every ship can boost the port side or starboard side AAA to shoot down planes. Even more so if you have the ability to toggle it back and forth quickly. At least then surface ship players have something they can do while under air attack other than turning. Honestly the new gameplay makes turning look damn near impossible anyways.
Cautiously optimistic is what Flamu said, and I tend to agree with him on this. I think, however, what everyone—supporters and detractors alike—need to remember is that this is early, early footage. And I saw part of the livestream where Mr. Conway talked about this stuff, the AA was turned off or down for the sake of the video to show off the new mechanics, so people talking about “four runs” need to really chill out.
In the end, this seems like a good direction. We’ll see how they work on the mechanics as development progresses and they start to balance things. All in all, though, this nascent revamp does do two things that are needed: 1. Lower the skill cap by providing a similar aiming style as non-CV ships. 2. Make CV play more up close, personal, and exciting. I liked playing RTS games, too, still do. But WoWS is not really an RTS and Carrier gameplay always felt like one of those really mediocre RTS games where they’re functional but not really engaging.
This makes CVs look like fun and less frustrating. So overall, a nice plus, but we should all reserve judgement until we see how it develops.
This is one of those can’t satisfy everyone scenario’s.
This this, Oh God, This
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *