World of Warships – Hinden and Roon Nerfs

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Discuss the proposed nerf to rate fire for these two German beauties. I’m more interested in holding off changes until the Zao adjustment arrives. Hope you have a wonderful day and I’ll catch you next time!

Tier X German Hindenburg Replay

https://discord.gg/33xzEjR – Discord Server

Related Ship Rage!

65 Comments:

  1. It should be get nerfed, but I think 1 sec doesn’t matter that much 🙂

  2. +1 second reload? That’s not really a nerf….

    *gets shot*

    • Most. but everyone who plays it competively will notice it to a point where, as Notser said. they will have to decide weather other T10 cruisers are not better. The change does not only affect RB. It also affects Cb and Ranked Battle as well.

    • I have, but a ship specific Module should never be the reason for a nerf. The module should be balanced around the current state of a ship and if the Module makes it OP you have to nerf the Module, not the ship. 10% to 13% less DPM is the difference between Yamato DPM and Montana DPM. So you are telling me that 1s is not significant? Other DPM nerfs/buffs where set between 0,3 and 0,5s so 1s is double that (Zao 14 to 13,5s being the last) You seem to only be reading the seconds but not the numbers over all. 1s is a massive nerf when you look at more than a single salvo.

    • I would beg to differ, for a couple of reasons. 1) Hindenburg’s strength isn’t a result of her fire rate, or any other singular trait. It’s her versatility that makes her powerful. And 2) As a consequence, she relies on that versatility to be effective. Hindenburg with a nerfed fire rate will suffer because it will lock players out of some previously available playstyles. She will not be able to be as aggressive as she currently is because her fire rate drop will mean she’s less likely to deliver that finishing hit that more often than not decides whether she sails away from an engagement with another cruiser or not. The longer that engagement lasts, the more pronounced that will get. At the same time, she will no longer be able to play the role of the long range spammer using the range module, because her DPM will drop so sharply that that module is no longer a viable choice on her.

      Right now, a range module-equipped Des Moines both outguns and out-ranges a reload module-equipped Hindenburg [which only has a 17.4km range. *Simultaneously.* DM additionally has better shell performance. Sure, Hindy hits harder if the target is broadside, and has flatter arcs and faster shells. But DM can deal with angles better because of that super heavy AP, has very competitive HE performance due to the blistering rate of fire, and has arcs that allow her to attack from behind cover with impunity unless the Hindenburg has support to force the DM out via a flanking manoeuvre; something that’s rare in Random Battles where the team seldom coordinates their gameplay.

      For Hindenburg to be effective against a DM, she has to find a way to sneak up on her and close the distance, and catch the DM broadside. Not that easy considering Hindenburg is the slowest T10 cruiser, has the second or third worst concealment radius even with a full concealment build and module, is sluggish in a turn, and that Des Moines’s aforementioned arcs allow her to keep lobbing shells onto Hindy over islands while the the latter is helpless. Essentially, outside of her armour and the defensive capability of her 6 km torpedoes, DM outperforms Hindenburg in every way. In a 1v1 nose-in gunnery duel, DM will win easily. And if Hindenburg tries to angle to bring more guns to bear, that USN AP will finish her very quickly. And as for torpedoes, let’s face it, what self respecting DM captain would ever let a Hindenburg get that close?

      Zao’s concealment and HE fire chance allow her to just torch the Hindenburg from the edge of her detection range, then drop out of sight. If the Hindenburg closes the distance to within 12.3 km [Hindy’s minimum concealment range], she will simply have to fight to the death, because turning away at that range opens her up to Zao’s punishing AP salvos, to say nothing of the torpedo complement that far surpasses Hindenburg’s.

      Minotaur has the hardest time dealing with Hindenburg because of her flimsy armour, but armed with smoke and an island in the way, she can force a Hindenburg to either run or charge, because the Hindenburg can’t match those arcs and can only retaliate if armed with a spotter plane at considerable range.

      Moskva, meanwhile, has the armour and the guns to retaliate against Hindenburg with its own medicine. High fire chance and excellent AP and shell velocity mean a Hindenburg pitted against a Moskva is not going to leave that engagement without sustaining considerable damage unless she manages to catch the Moskva from the side.

      And as someone else mentioned above, a Henri with the legendary module equipped will be able to match that fire rate, but have a significantly more potent punch because of the 240mm guns as opposed to Hindenburg’s 203s.Sure, Henri’s utility is limited because of the way she’s designed, but if we’re speaking purely in terms of gun performance, she is superior.

      The whole point of the Hindenburg is that she is the aggressive cruiser. She is at her best at medium range. She’s a brawler at her core. With the long range meta currently dominating the game, that has become harder and harder to achieve, steadily locking her, just like all the KMBBs, out of her element. A nerf to the fire rate will just further isolate her. She seems excessively popular now because she’s the most forgiving of the cruisers with her armour scheme, meaning that the less talented players who have been seeing her being used effectively in competitive play now flock to her over her more fragile peers like the Minotaur. In all other respects however, she is a swiss army knife: able to do many things decently, but does not excel at anything. In a sense, she is the textbook example of what a cruiser should be.

      My apologies for the lengthy response. This got far, far longer than I had intended. I just worry that WG are a bit quick on the trigger here. Ideally, they should take time to consider this and consider other approaches before nerfing a ship that is comfortable in its role as is. There are several ships considerably more problematic at the moment. Conqueror, the current Stalingrad, to name a couple. And I didn’t even go into how bad an idea it is to apply this nerf to the Roon of all things as well.

    • I can actually agree to basically all your points. Which is rare considering I am known to always complain given even the slightest hint of a chance to do so. I ofeten disagree whith what Notser has to say but in this case I am on his side. The t10 braked (atleast for the cruisers) is very well balanced. the Buff of the Zao seems excessive in my opinion. 10km Torpedos would have done the trick quite nicely. I mean why play the Shima if you have a CA which in a division can do everything a shima can do but better.

      The Hindenburg has many downsides compared to the other cruisers but it is reliable and this is the single most important point. I love my Zao and my DM both are great ships in a randome batlle but when it comes to CW/CB I preffer the Hindeburg. A Zao is really hard to use as it requires a 100% different playstile to the randome meta. DM suffers from her streanghts. The high arcs make it near impossible to hit a Unicorn DD player at anything above 10km range and even cruisers make for hard to hit targets. Never the less the DM seems to excell in a close combat role if pushed even more so than the Hindenburg.

      I found that Zao and Dm (if both played to their strenght) are the biggest counter to a well played Hindenburg. Pushing an island camping DM requires you to show enough side to launch your torpedos which incidentially is exactly how much Broadside a DM needs to punsh a Hindeburg. Pushing a Zao simply askts for you to be burned down to a crisp (Which is why i named the LM on the Hindenburg in combination with my CB build the “Fuck you Zao” build).

      everyone who says that the 1s less reload won’t bother the Hindenburg has only ver played her in randome or simply sucked in competative. True in a randome battle the 1s will not bother me at all. I will still be able to burn down BB and get of my hard hitting salvo on any D which dares to get within 12km range or less. But outside of the randome battle where a cruiser heavy meta exist the Hindenburg will suffer greatly. A good slavo of a hindenburg will deal 3300dmg while a good salvo of the Zao will deal 5-6k dmg. I belive thze difference is obvious. 2.5s more realoade for almost double the damge is just beyond powerfull.

      The single saving garce is the Lm which significantly buffs the Hindenburg in CB but at the cost of concealment. If this trade off is viable remains to be seen. As a Hindeburg Main I was happy to see the stats of the Lm but after the possibility of a Nerf was anounced i was shocked. The Lm affects the competetive leauge so does the reload nerf. But the Randome meta is hardly touched by the Lm while the nerf still remains for Randome battles.

      Roon is an entirely different matter. Most of my friends consider the Roon to be the bets T9 cruiser, I do so as well. But the competition is not that hard. The Buffalow is the biggest contester but was only released recently. The neptune is outperfomed in almost every aspect so is the old Baltimor. The Domskoi sufered from her low caliber He shells and the St luis was just a mediocre ship at best.

      So was the Roon to strong? Compared to the other T9 CA and CL, Yes. But overall? No. I belive the T9 CA and CL (and BB for that matter) to be largely underpowered. Sure they are mostly better than the T8 (except for Neptune which managed to be worse than Edin in most places) but still the only stat which significantly increased was the AA stat. ImO almost all T9 ships except for the DD need a buff to be competetive against the competion they meet, not a nerf to one of the feew which actually meet expectations.

      I could go on but I am tired (it is 3 am) and the forums are already full of what I have to say and most of the other arguments. So I see no point in making even more typos and general mistakes just for the sake of talking to 10/15 interested people.

    • Regardless of whether you use the reload upgrade or not the bonuses will be multiplicative – 10% is 10%.

      The reason people use the Hind so much is that it is one of two ships that reliably can demolish the GK. If they gave GK 1mm more deck armor, it would shatter Hinden shells just like it does all others.

  3. I don’t feel that a nerf is necessary. I agree we should hold off until the Zao changes are in the game. Especially since how balanced tier 10 cruisers currently are.

  4. Timon Abramovic

    I get that the Hindenburg became very competitive…
    However, I share your opinion as well. I don’t see how the Zao gets this revolutionary Torpedo Buff but then they nerf this ship because it’s played a lot???
    Makes no sense to me and is pre-mature in my opinion.

    • So war gaming are forcing people to get the new upgrades also its not like ull get it for free ull have to work for it plus people may still want to use the concealment mod rather than the new lengendary mods

    • Timon Abramovic the Zao does not need stealth torps capability with the amount of HE fire output it has.

    • Was that a typo? Or was it even English?!

    • sounds like a wg move,that’s for sure. but don’t mind me, i’m just a salty long time tanks player.

    • Achim Hanischdörfer

      According to the available stats on wows-numbers.com the Hindenburg is the *worst* T10 Cruiser. I don’t get it.
      I can kinda understand the Roon nerf. Maybe. But the Hinden sits at sub 49% average win rate. All the other cruisers, exept the Des Moines have around 49.5% and the Des Moines has 50.3%.

      The Zao is better as the Hinden by this point. Now the Zao gets a torp buff. And the Hinden gets a gun nerf.

  5. I consider that the buff on relatively low performance cruisers, such as the torpedos change on Zao, is a much better idea.
    But this slightly nerf on Hinden is understandable.

  6. I would not touch t10 at all. Its the best t because everything works.

  7. Yeah this is a stupid idea, nerfing is almost never a good idea. It is far better to do what they are doing to the Zao, buff the ships a little that they feel need it. Nerfing a ship to make it worse after all the time it takes to unlock and all the credits to buy a tier 10 is bad. It honestly makes me not want to bother doing it, if the ship I spend all that time on suddenly stops being the ship I wanted, then I am going to be very annoyed and not want to go up to other tier 10s. Not saying this makes that much of a change but I dislike nerfs for that reason, so please WG don’t nerf ships, buff the ones that are lagging behind instead.

    • nutluck never nerfing is mad and only leads to increased power creep. If 1 single ship is too strong, you would have to buff every other ship to balance it… and if you spent all that time grinding the line for every ship to be buffed but the one you spent all that time and credits grinding you would be just as annoyed…. surely? It’s exactly the same outcome only never nerfing is harder to achieve and is likely to create more imbalance. I suspect this is more about not nerfing a ship you like rather than the act of nerfing itself.

    • I don’t own it and I disagree. If one ship is the best of it’s class at a tier, Then buff the other ships up to that ship. Then there is no power creep because all the sames of that class and tier are then equal power.

    • nutluck and then you need to buff the other classes or you end up with them to powerful in comparison.

    • Only if they need it.

    • Deus Ex Machina

      Especially since they just added the Kronstadt

  8. @Notser, Don’t give them ideas. If it ain’t broke, they’ll fix that first

  9. Crimson Scarlet

    The only one thing that Hindenburg needs is a buff to concealment, from 16km to 15km. Look at the numbers on Hipper and Roon, they are just slighty different and those ships (including Hindenburg) have a couple of meters diference in size (go look dseehafer Cruiser size comparison). High tier german cruisers doesnt need ANY nerfs

  10. The Stalingrad will be an automatic nerf to all other cruisers anyway.

    • André Chapetta

      Neil Baird Tbh, they probably wont release this as it is right now. Its really broken. Op AF!

    • idk man. I don’t think they’ll let go of that laser accurate gun. They’ll probably reduce it’s range, which won’t address the actual issue at all.

  11. CaptainProspect

    On the issue of name- ” Legendary Upgrade” best change to “Veteran Upgrade”- as you need to play that ship to unlock it.

  12. Nerfs and buffs seem quite unnecessary to most T9-10 cruisers even to the Zao. I think the only ship that needs a buff would be the Ibuki. 15s reload with just 10 guns is just way to much.

    • I would put Zao’s guns on Ibuki, that buff alone would make it much more comfortable to play.

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      That would make it a fantasy ship. I don’t mind the guns on Ibuki, but the lengthy reload irks me. 12-13second reload would be just fine on it.

    • Both would work well, but I feel the IJN 203mm/50 AP is really lacklustre for its tier.

  13. Spineking Jørgensen

    Out of all the damn cruisers they nerf hindenburgh… She is forced to choose between hydro or defAA instead of getting both… Cmon man! She has high AP Alpha but bad penetration and insane HE pen but bad HE alpha… Wargaming y u do dis

    • “Who, in their right mind, even believes Hindenburg is superior to Zao? I love my Hindenburg, but there’s nothing I do in Hindenburg that I don’t do equally good or better in a Zao.” Which is why hinden is picked 10-1 Vs zao in any kind of competitive, right?

      “Also, on paper it has better AA, yes. In reality, Zao with DefAA, BFT, AA Range mod and Manual AA kills entire Midway strikes. Fuck, even without DefAA it can kill a Midway Bomber squad before it reaches her.”

      Oh right, you just have to spec your zao in a way that makes it completely under-whelming in every other way except AA and then its ok at AA. got it. Zao can’t use hydro while in AA spec either.

      Hinden currently both out-ranges and out-DPMs zao as stock and even more so when you consider that a zao pretty much has to run range mod instead of reload while hinden doesn’t. Ibuki has longer range than Zao, think about that for a moment.
      But I bet you’d equally complain if instead of 1 sec reload nerf on hinden they gave zao 18km range instead so that the reload mod was actually a viable choice, right?
      I’d be fine with the Zao’s guns being un-nerfed back to what they were before when it was OP because of stealth firing and just leave hinden reload as is.
      Also zao used to have 20km torps, if we want to talk about nerfs …

      You might want to reevaluate your bias.

      Just to sum up, you’re upset because you want hinden to have;
      better range
      better DPM
      better hydro
      better AA
      while also having 25% more HP?

      and you think that better concealment [negated a lot by CV spotting in competitive anyway] plus some actual useable torps that aren’t a complete downdragrade from those on every other IJN cruiser back to like tier 6 despite still being at barely useable launch angles is some how balanced?

      DM’s DPM is balanced by having very low comparative range, as is mino’s.
      So where is zao’s extra range to compliment is significantly lower DPM?

      the answer is that its complicated and its probably easier to bring the hinden down in dpm a notch than try and bring other cruisers up.

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      “Which is why hinden is picked 10-1 Vs zao in any kind of competitive, right?”
      I personally pick DM for ranked because it’s broken as fuck, but I pick Zao over Hindenburg if those are the only 2 options, yes. Hindenburg is picked as long range DPM boat, so why nerf the DPM and not the range?

      “Oh right, you just have to spec your zao in a way that makes it completely under-whelming in every other way except AA and then its ok at AA. got it. Zao can’t use hydro while in AA spec either.”
      Actually I only miss out on DE, which isn’t THAT important considering Zao’s fire chance. Also, I personally fire AP, like, a lot.

      “But I bet you’d equally complain if instead of 1 sec reload nerf on Hindenburg they gave Zao 18km range instead so that the reload mod was actually a viable choice, right?”
      No, Zao is fine as is. I welcome the torpedo options, but otherwise the ship is fine.

      “Just to sum up, you’re upset because you want hinden to have;
      better range
      better DPM
      better hydro
      better AA
      while also having 25% more HP?”
      Wanting to have both Hydro and DefAA means exactly this, yes. Are you even still replying to me? I’d take a range nerf on Hindenburg just so I could use Hydro and DefAA.

      “and you think that better concealment [negated a lot by CV spotting in competitive anyway] plus some actual useable torps that aren’t a complete downdragrade from those on every other IJN cruiser back to like tier 6 despite still being at barely useable launch angles is some how balanced?”
      Hence them adding the 12km torpedoes maybe? I never felt like I needed those on Zao, but I’ll take it.

      “DM’s DPM is balanced by having very low comparative range, as is mino’s.
      So where is zao’s extra range to compliment is significantly lower DPM?”
      Actually, the lack of range is compensated by getting radar, everything that’s lackluster about DM is because it has radar.

      You seem to misunderstand how the Zao works. Zao doesn’t need DPM, because it has alpha. Zao can get devastating strikes on cruisers at any range (except Hindenburg at close range, obviously) thanks to its accuracy and shell velocity.

      “the answer is that its complicated and its probably easier to bring the Hinden down in dpm a notch than try and bring other cruisers up.”
      This is true. What is also true is that Tier X cruisers are in a good place, despite radar fucking shit up. Hindenburg getting a nerf because it’s “played too much in competitive” makes as much sense as nerfing Bismarck and/or NC for that same reason. Also, it’s a stupid nerf that won’t fix anything. Like buffing the HE pen was stupid and didn’t fix anything. If anything needed nerfing to solidify the Zao as the superior sniper, they might as well have nerfed the range so it’s closer to the brawler identity they want to, but fail to push. Or fuck up the long range dispersion. Anything other than the reload, which is part of the brawler identity.

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      It’s in my reply to Aus Explorer, but I’ll recap: If the long range DPM of Hindenburg is superior to Zao’s, why is the DPM addressed, but not the range?

      Zao isn’t meant as a DPM monster, it’s meant to alpha and start fires. Zao is supposed to be good at medium to long range (which it is, imho, the new torps will be a nice bonus). Hindenburg is supposed to be a brawler, but because its DPM is superior to Zao’s, we’re going to nerf the DPM at all ranges. That makes sense.

      Next up: DM starts too many fires, reload increased to 10s. Makes about as much sense.

    • If zao got Atago torp arcs I wouldn’t care about the range. More health would certainly be welcome, plus the Zao legendary upgrade is (as I believe I have stated) imo, not that great and I feel like WG did good for the yamato/shima but the Zao missed out once again. I have 140k average damage in mine but I still feel like its the worst cruiser (besides maybe minotaur or Henry)

    • Achim Hanischdörfer

      @DragonFan247
      Clan mate of mine recently unlocked the Zao. He is not that impressed by the Hindenburg. He really likes the Zao. The Hindenburg doesn’t need a nerf. Nor the Zao really a buff. To change both ships long term popularity one has to make the journey to them sufferable.
      The Hinden is not this popular because it is “just better”. It is popular because the ships at T6, T7, T8 and T9 that lead up to it are not massive stinking turds. Except the Roon, none are particularly amazing. But also not a collection of soley unredeemable features.
      Which is what I’d describe the Myoko as. Big, sluggish, shitty turret traverse, shitty turret placement, shitty citadel protection, meh stealth, bad DPM.
      And it doesn’t look like the Mogami will be much better. And I am absolutely not looking forwards to having to play the Ibuki.
      On the other hand, I quite liked the Yorck. It was flexible, handy, with good turret traverse, good turret placement, ok citadel protection, ok stealth and ok DPM. I liked the Hipper. I liked the Roon. The Hindenburg is OK.

      I don’t understand where you fabricated the “6s better reload”. Hindenburg base reload is 10s (atm). Zao Base reload is 13.7. That is a 3.7s difference.
      The Zaos DPM with HE is 178680. It has a potential of “10 Fires per minute” (calculated with fire chance * projectiles/minute)
      The Hindens DPM with HE is 180000. It has a 10.8 Fires / Minute potential. So the hinden has 0.6% better dpm and 8% better fire setting potential. *EARTH MOVING*

      The Hinden does have a 25% health advantage. But the Hinden is also less manouveralble. But since you have to make due with 9.6s of rudder shift time versus 6.5s on the Zao with same upgrades.
      The Hindenburg is also quite a bit larger. In the end that makes it also eat 25% more damage as it cannot evade as well as a Zao.
      Not to mention that the Zao is really stealthy. Only the Worchester and Minotaur can outspot it. It is very easy to stealth up as Zao. Much unlike the Hindenburg. So in practice the about 10k less HP of the Zao have no impact. It is actually easier to not take any damage from return fire in the Zao. Far easier. (A friend of mine allowed me to test the Zao by lending me his account).
      I do agree that you cannot really brawl with a Zao. But why would you. It’s strengths are mainly its very precise main battery and its good stealth. By going brawling you select to *completely disregard* its biggest strengths.

      Greets 4plains

      Personal Note:
      Arguments like yours I see very often and hear often when I speak with other players about this game. They look at ships, correctly diagnose their strength and then forget to play accordingly in battle. I agree that the most effective counter to a Zao is the Hindenburg or the Moskva in a long range fight and the Minotaur and Des Moines in a brawl. The Zao kind of breaks the established “Rock-Paper-Scissors” design of WoWS. Battleships cannot really deal with a Zao. DDs can’t really either. Only cruisers.

  14. Roon doesn’t need the nerf.

  15. I love my Hindenburg but I can see a case for lengthening the reload. She can tear through HP quite quickly given the chance….however, in comparison to other cruisers….in their arena’s of operation….the Hinden has to rely on just being more tanky to out damage them.

    Maybe if they nerf the reload a bit they can improve the stealth to lessen the impact?

  16. The Invincible Iowa

    >hindy torps arent for attacking…
    Notser you didnt play too much CW did you?
    Hindy was top pick for disloging leech DM’s behind islands chaining radar.
    If anything DM should get a nerf and Hindy stay as is.
    Hindy is one of the 3 most annoying ships in the meta.
    It has great range, 12 guns, and torps
    That along with Mino’s stupid Heal, and near instant reload, and DM’s stupid island hugging radar spam really sucks for DD’s and other T10 cruisers
    Radar is really OP this meta, its why no one really used Zao in CW. No point.
    But everyone and their mother had 2-3 DM in their lineup.
    😒

    • The Invincible Iowa

      I guess. but even against MIA and other typhoon/hurricane clans we saw 1-2 DM minimum and Hindy, i dont think i saw a single Zao outside of rentals… i dont disagree with you, just that from my 2 seasons of CW i dont feel Zao was that big of a sway in matches. and even Rental Hindy was at least helpful, Zao takes skill to play (like you said) Hindy is (mostly) an idiot proof CA.

    • The Invincible Iowa

      even in SL against Mia-a (which we played against) i saw no Zao, all the way up to Semi-Finals (i believe) Zao is a maybe, Hindy/DM are always top pick it does too much too well, and has a forgiving skill curve compared to the other T10 Cruisers.

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      Problem is how unbalanced Radar is. It “breaks” ships. DM without Radar is pointless, might aswell take pretty much any other cruiser. Imho, if they’d just let radar obey line of sight rules (y’know, like real radar), it wouldn’t break the game so much and DM might actually see some changes.

      Despite people clamoring “russian bias”, I believe Moskva is way more balanced than DM.

    • Achim Hanischdörfer

      @Invincible Iowa
      DM heavy lineups were the in the lower leagues. The clan I am in inhabited storm league group 1 for the last 3 weeks of CW. We routinely ran into teams with green clan tags from hurricane league group 3. We won our games against other storm league clans and always were wiped by the dreaded Greens.
      They never used more than 2 DM. Usually exactly 2. 1 for each flank.
      What varied were the other cruisers. Usually at least 1 Hindenburg or Zao and one other cruiser.
      and then 2 DDs.
      Hurricane league and Typhoon league clans are scary. They work very well with each other and focus fire with discipline. Inbetween Clan Wars seasons we had the opportunity to train against a few.

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      I personally believe the reason Hindenburg is played more (in general, not talking competitive specific) is because German cruisers from Yorck and up resemble more of a BB to the average potato, thus they assume it’s stronger. Aside from Nurnberg (though this might be fine now with the 1/4 pen change, I wouldn’t know, I haven’t played it since Russian cruisers release) and Yorck, the grind is relatively fine. Whereas Aoba, Mogami and maybe even Ibuki were/are cockblocks to the average potato. Same with U.S. cruisers, at least a while ago, Cleveland got spammed, but Pensacolas and NOs were pretty rare.

  17. And then they say cruiser population is dying. Y even bother playing with cruisers if they just nerf the best cruiser

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      I’m not saying BBs are super mobile, I hardly move at all in BBs and sit just outside caps most of the time. Teammates are super eager to get kills on my server, I hardly get kills myself unless I dev strike. Also, I can actually aim and kill cruisers on my own. That’s right. I’m *that* good.

      I just hate playing BBs, because everyone seems so shit at hunting DDs, something a BB isn’t really suited for.

    • Hardly moving sounds really boring. Also “I hardly get kills… I can aim and kill cruisers on my own”? Plus while aiming with battleships is important, actually doing damage is more down to RNG. Its kind of hard to kill things when your shells scatter all over the general area you aimed

    • Achim Hanischdörfer

      @Eagly262
      What sane cruiser player would attempt to fight a BB at sub 14km range? As cruiser I live by the fact that BB shells take so long to reach me I can turn out underneath them. At 13km I have 8 to 10s to react. That is about the rudder speed.
      At 18km away I have 15s to react. That is enough to turn 90° and make the BB players aim almost irrelevant.
      If I am not mistaken, stealth built BBs have sub 14km surface detection. That means as BB I can usually stop shooting anyways because enemy cruiser don’t WANT to be near me, and disappear from view.

      On the point of RNG with battleships: RNG plays a factor on most of the BBs. Except for 1. The Montana. The Montana is mediocre in most aspects except the main battery. Its dispersion is not the tightest but almost always of similar shape and pattern. This makes the Montana more or less no longer RNG dependent. Like the Zao, the Montana breaks with a part of WoWS class design.

      On the point of moving with a BB. It highly depends what BB you play. The Yamato is such a non-moving BB. Sometimes you have to do that as well as Montana. But the Monana, Kurfürst, Conquerer and Republique are all their own flavour of roaming BB. Only the Yamato is really to be played stationary.

    • Trust me I know how to play cruisers, I’ve done it quite a bit (hence my confidence in asserting that they’re the strongest class). And so what if they’ve got a 14 km concealment? Most cruisers will get a 10-11 km concealment with just concealment skill, let alone the module. Thats a 2-3 km window to play around with before they spot me. And as for fleeing, they can do that but if you set them on fire, their concealment goes out the window leaving you to able to pursue at a perfectly safe distance. Plus I usually play mobility builds so I feel comfortable getting a bit closer than normal.

    • DaKillerChipmunk

      What I meant was that I can kill them if I have to, though most of the time there’s some random who steals the kill. I swear the only time I get Kraken on slow reload ships is when the majority of my team dies.

      “Its kind of hard to kill things when your shells scatter all over the general area you aimed

      Kind of depends what BB you play. Yamato, Montana and Conq (AP) are fairly easy in this regard, though Conq (AP) has a hard time scoring citadels on bows due to its short fuse. GK and Republique, not so much.

  18. Honestly, I don’t even remember having some kind of issue with fires or floodings in Hindy. Even if i don’t repair right away, i’ll do it a few seconds later, as you said, nobody gonna wait for the flooding to go away, that’s just stupid. In my opinion. the especial upgrade is 100% useless and 100%nerf. About the possible upcoming “extra” nerfs? Why? Come on, it takes a few trade offs to max it out at 8.8secs reload, is that OP? On top of that, to have that reload time, you give up range, turret rotation and AA, so since when a Tier X Cruiser with 8,8s reload and 17,7km range is OP?? WG (War Greed) is, once again, crippling balanced ships so that players buy the new OP premiums. WG is a company that doens’t mind ruining the game for 50 cents profit. What they are doing by adding more radars, more HE spamming ships, nerfing balanced ships, making it a “snipe spamming fps battle” is completely trashing the game but you know, money speaks higher.

    • you never played the hindeburg in a clan battle right? If you did I’d reccoment you never bother your clan again with you in the Hindenburg. In CB you would skill largely into reducing the duration you burn and flood because your role would be the one of a substitude BB. And the Module buffs those areas. 6s instead of 9s to stop a fire or 20 instead of 35s to stop a flooding? you could simply ignore anything up to 4 fires. If that is not Op I don’t know what is.

    • I don’t play clan battles but last time I checked this is not a game about clan battles you see what I mean? Everybody plays random battles but only a few play clan battles, that’s the hierarchy. Nevertheless, I don’t really agree that 3 seconds buff on fire and 20 seconds instead of 35 secs on floodings is gonna make a big difference. 3 secs fire is nothing and 20 secs flooding will leave you out of battle anyway. Repair times are very small already in CAs. I think that – 20% rudder shift time and -50% dmg on main guns are the only buffs i would consider a decent reason but even like that, losing 10% concealment and also -5% to enemy accuracy is too much of a trade off. Having BB concealment isn’t bad for clan battles?
      I was erroneously talking about slot 6 in my first post i guess

  19. Michael Stanley

    Zao counter Hinden like crazy, and Zao has a higher average dmg than Hinden. Please balance Zao before balancing Hinden

  20. *Really WG?* The t10 cruiser that has the lowest win rate of all 6 t10 cruisers, second to last in average kills per battle and third in average damage needs a nerf? While the Zao, which is better in all those stats, gets a buff?
    Did it ever occur to you, WG, that people play that ship, because it is fun to play even though there are objectively more powerful ships?
    Your solution: *make the experience worse.*

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