Loading...Hey guys, today we take a look at matchmaking not only in WoWs, but in other games in search of an answer toward the question of “Is the matchmaking really that bad in WoWs?”
Discord: https://discord.gg/P5aR2PzVXB
Music:
Ross Rowley:
https://music.apple.com/us/artist/ross-rowley/1524460114
https://www.rossrowley.com
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Outro Music: Stranger Think- C418
Have a replay?
Music: Stranger Think- C418
Ross Rowley: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/ross-rowley/1524460114
https://music.apple.com/us/album/radon/1553896834?
Chapters:
0:00 Channel Intro
0:11 Is It Only WoWs?
2:27 Explanation of Test
3:37 Defining Blowout Matches
4:07 Blowout Match Criteria
5:12 Battlefield V
7:17 War Thunder
9:28 Red Dead Online
12:09 Modern Warfare
14:14 World of Warships and Conclusion
The main problem about MM(especially mid tier) is the map IMO,
being a T7 ship in a T9 Match is bad enough, having to get in to the middle of the map to be able to get in range just sucks.
Imagine being an Atlanta in Okinawa.
If you in the Atlanta, no matter what map you go to, the enemy team will want to take you out first. My prime ship is the Atlanta. No matter what, for me, there us at least half the enemy team focused on me even if they cant hit me and there are other players they can hit. They still got me focused. So really bad example. Lol
think that can be said of just about any light cruiser – i was playing cleveland more recently and if you are spotted you get the absolute crap focused out of you. being bottom tier just means there are even more ships these days that can overmatch/nuke the absolute snot out of you.
+1/-1 matchmaker would be heaps better fix. the power difference will then not be quite so severe.
There’s worse. Schors getting a T9 game. Your guns don’t hit hard enough to effectively HE farm BBs and since IFHE is basically mandatory for Russian CLs you’re an awful firestarter to boot. You’re really good at sniping DDs, but you’re the size of a BB with no armor to speak of and the instant you go visible every BB on the map opens up on you and can cit you through the bow with basically any size BB gun. It’s rare you get good enough cover to actually be able to put your 12 guns to work on the enemy DDs, but when you do it does kill DDs fast.
@mrvwbug44 i play cruisers alot, mostly 5-6 bbs in matches all friggin 2 x tier…why is that/ they are strong ships are they deserving of top tier all the time?
Totally disagree, I think it’s the spread of tiers, players in game and skills and upgrades.
+1 -1 tier spread would put ships more equally balanced against each other, eg Musashi v Colorado is not even a close competition with two tier difference.
Players, if there is a super unicum div that team almost always rofl stomps if 2 unicum divs they are often on the same side again resulting in a romp.
Then there are players with all the ship mods and 21 point captains whereas the other team may have the majority of players grinding and as such not maxed out in any of these areas so even identical ships can be vastly different in abilities.
There are so many factors in WoW’s that result in blowouts but the main factor is as always money. It would cost WG money to fix MM and that simply means it will never be fixed and WG just cop-out by making random just that….RANDOM. So it’s highly likely rofl stomps will always be in game.
If I could pick one thing to improve MM then it would be make the game +1 -1 spread so ships closer in ability will face each other.
But WG assholes won’t do that for unknown, unsubstantiated reasons known only to them.
MM is always going to be a frustrating shit show in WoW’s sadly.
That Chinese game Steel Ocean did not have so many ROFL stomps. MM one up and one down should be the norm as you wrote.
But then the uptier doesn’t hurt some classes as much as others. Even a +1 uptier is painful for a cruiser, especially CLs. Meanwhile a double uptier for a DD is usually not a big deal, you might not be able to fight over caps with +2 tier gunboats, but you can still torp the living shit out of +2 tier BBs no problem and provide spotting and smoke for your team.
@Mrs_Ragdoll What you described doesn’t work in a game that has multiple tiers played with multiple ships of multiple classes.
First, Personal Rating is a bad measurement. It measures mostly your capacity to deal damage, barely your capacity to win making it almost irrelevant as a skill based matchmaking tool. Skill isn’t your capacity to deal damage, it’s your capacity to win meaning if you want a skill based matchmaking, you look at winrates.
Second, your average means nothing when there’s this much variance between three factors. You could be a 45% WR destroyer at tier 5 but a 65% WR carrier at tier 10. There’s also a lot of variance between every single ship. How do you match someone like that?
@dzello I honestly didn’t know PR only looks at damages, that’s already a big problem then and bad design by WG. If it doesn’t look at capping caps or defending it etc. Just like the game already promotes damage farming too much, even when you cap all 3 caps with a DD but do like only 20K damage because all torps miss that match, you end up halfway the scoreboard. You do 100K damage with a BB from spawn row? you end up first or 2nd place.
But still in general personal rating should still point out a difference between skilled and bad players since it’s calculated exactly the same for everyone no matter what captain or ship you use, everyone plays stock ships, have higher and lower points captains and play different kind of ships. I ran Matchmaking Monitor for a while and you could already see the outcome of the match in 90% of the battles, and uninstalled again because it’s so depressing. So yes PR is saying something and using it is at least better than no skilled based MM at all imo, it will at least help the teams making more balanced and not put all good players in 1 team
@Mrs_Ragdoll Personal Rating is a measurement made by players, not by WG. It mostly looks at damage, then looks at kills then looks at winrate slightly. It compares all of those to other players on the same ship.
It’s a garbage measurement: it depends on the players who play the ship (for example, PR on steel ships and PR on tech tree ships don’t even have the same value because people who play steel ships are generally above average) and heavily favors farming damage even if you lose (which means you can have incredible PR and lose often). To be precise, if you stay at the back and spam HE every game even if you lose, your PR will be incredibly high despite a 45% winrate.
For example, I’m a super unicum carrier player with a below average personal rating. My biggest gap is with a carrier that has an 84% winrate and my personal rating on it is also below average.
There’s no reason to use PR which has a slightly correlation with skill when WR is 99% correlated with skill.
It had been for a long time. And a lot of players have left the game…So I think it has gotten even worse because there is a huge skill gap. Either you are a co op skill level or Purple People eater team. And 9/10 matches are over before they start.
Sorry but no, when they have all 460mm(or more) bbs and you have none, when they have 50-70% win rate players and you have 30-50%, when they have 3 divs of 3 and you have none, when they have 20k battles altogether and you have 2k, when they have 4 radars and you have none, when they have all gunboat dd that take all cap and you have shimmas! PLEASE! tell me what is fair about a New Orleans fighting a Musashi?
You just listed so many factors, and honestly, having 2 of those factors already are conditions for a blowout 🙁
@EragonRank Yeah, the way is see it WG has programmed it this way, there is a reason after 7 years or so they have done nothing to fix this, World OF Warships is not a game……it is a money making program.
Their are 2 things they could co to improve the experience 1)Limit it to 1 tier difference 2)Add in a commander role like squad or BF2 .
liked commander role back in BF2
Dude, when he said there were only four BF5 servers running.. like really, is that the longevity of modern BF games? Then had a brief nostalgic moment of BF2, and wondered if I’m just an old fart, but lo and behold I only have to look in the comments for others who go straight back there.
+1 -1 solves all
@Dave Raill an overhaul of the calculation for earnings and xp would be very helpful. Im a main DD player, and i dont see any benefits for me to do spoting or hunting subs…. You dont get anything out of it…
Same for BB players, raise the earnings for BB players if they are near the enemy they sink, and give penaltys for them who stay far behind for kills. or damage. cruisers the same. There are many possibilities to educate players…
The commmander idea is also very nice, ppl tend to follow if they have someone who gives orders.
OR a simple MVP system would be very helpful, if one gets voted mvp in his team he gets a bonus at the end…. So DD s are more likely to smoke for big boats or cruisers who support DDs in a cap. Not to mention brawling for BBs would be more likely. I love brawling in my Schlieffen or Kremlin.
I also think community size is another factor, a larger community means less up tiering and a wider variety of players. But there are also issues the game, bur a light skill based mm would help as well as plus 1 mm .
A bigger player base wouldn’t change anything.
The composition (unicum, good, bad etc players) would still be the same. The matchmaker just wouldn’t have to roll the dice for so long.
The only fair enough way to fix MM is to put everyone with the same tier of their ships in the same game. You want to battle with a t7 for example, you land in a only t7 game. Second option, they make the maximum tier difference at 1 tier instead of the actual 2 tier because it is really suck when you get in these situations were you have a t6 or highter, you end up being bullied by t8 or highter. For beginners, it is really a hard way to progress because they dont know how to counter those players with big powerfull ships that are more experienced than them and will quickly dislike the game because it keep repeating the same difference of level 3/4 of the time.
True Teir VII ship vs Teir IX is big gap for BB’snot so much cruiser’s DD player can hang in their
Now with so many subclasses ie gunboat vs torpedo DD’s and light and heavy cruisers, radar and no radar, i think wows should classify ships MORE specifically according to their roles like WOT did with their tanks and MM should factor the subclasses in to matchmaking. its quite obvious which team will win when you put a team with 4 gunboat DD’s like F.shermans and haru’s against a team full of shimas. one team cant even cap or risk dying and the other will just gun down everything in their path. same for radars. ofc, skill based MM would greatly help too. like when 3 of your DD’s rush into cap when theres an enemy radar cruiser watching over it and dies instantly like 5 mins into the game whereas theirs are still alive, its quite obvious who is gonna win…
You’re part right there, but I’ve also killed many a smoke camping gunboat by sending Japanese torps into smoke clouds. In an obvious mismatch like F Shermans vs Shimas, it’s clear the Shima team isn’t going to get early caps, and most Shima drivers are dumb enough to try to gun duel F Shermans, if your Shimas are smart they’ll back off the caps, try to spot the Shermans so your cruisers can take them, and wall of skill into smoke clouds still gets a lot of kills.
One, I noticed enemy divisions with a DD (or two) or a CV in a triple division. These are the sides that collapse quickly.
Second thing is the dominant team having more silver and gold ranked players vs none on my side.
Third, noticing more and more, two or three ships hide in the back and come out the last five minutes to take out 1/10th health ships despite winning, turning the game around.
Divs often go to the same side, often leads to a lemming train, which kind of derails because ships in the lead often aren’t the best to push so EVERYBODY piles up.
Yesterday I was in a match where an Atlanta sailed into the cap while friendly BBs and my Brindisi were able to shoot into the cap from cover. We killed it in less time than it took for the Atlanta to come into detection range. In another match, some person sailed their Baltimore into the cap at the start on Two Brothers, got deleted, then wondered what they were doing wrong and why they never survived.
Feels kind of hard to blame that stuff on superships, subs, and mysterious new mechanics.
More often than not…. they’re bots.
Well when you have a Tirpitz on your team abandon you, go back to spawn and finish the game with 5 xp I’d say so. Someone like that should be limited to coop
It’s indeed a sad truth that mm in Warships is in a pretty dismal state right now. Just on Sunday and on Monday, I played around 12 battles and my team only managed to get one victory. Nearly all the battles were not even close but a complete wipe-out of our team within the first 7-8 min. For example, in one battle, there was a two-man division of super-unicum players (over 75% win rate) on the enemy team. They killed nearly half of our team. Not only that, 3 other players on the enemy team were ranked one either in the bronze or silver league. My team had no one of that caliber. So not surprisingly, we were wiped out with 7 min of the battle. It was a foregone conclusion even before the battle started. I think +1/-1 matchmaking may certainly help to address some of the failings of mm, which WG seems to be happily ignoring. Subs are not helping matters either. I was in a battle in a Hindenburg yesterday and within the first 2 min of battle, I was focused on by a Balao and was dev struck by its 6 homing torpedoes. From full health to zero health with just one strike by a sub. I could not even spot the sub before being killed. How on earth is this fair play?
They fiddled with something recently which prioritises putting div bros next to each other at spawn, this screws up the symmetry even more as it only takes 1 DD in a div (in either team) and suddenly the T7 is opposite the T9, which really swings things.
The sole purpose of MM is to combat blowout matches, not to ensure each side has the same type of ship. Anything else is pointless as player skill can’t be categorized. Ship abilities such as radar do impact but it is very niche and really is more a tier 7-8 issue. Volume of players will always help MM, more players = better match options.
A big problem I find is the inconsistency in RNG. It seems that very often you get a game where you can’t start fires, dispersion is poor and when you do hit damage is minimal. And yet the enemy team seem to start fires every salvo and get impossibly good accuracy and dispersion. No mystery to see which team wins by a huge margin.