World of Warships Nerf Dead Eye Now

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Most of my World of Warships followers know I’m pretty easy going. As of late, I rarely hit back at Wargaming and usually let bygones be bygones. However, I can’t sit by regarding dead eye. The effects on the game and the players are too big to ignore, and something needs to happen. Whether it’s a nerf, or a tweak, or a pause, I don’t care. Something needs to happen soon. It’s not that dead eye is super OP. Its the psychological effects its causing which resulting in a major meta shift. BBs are no longer pushing. With no support, /CL players aren’t playing that class, and DDs are not wanting to cap. It’s a pretty vicious cycle that has fallen on WOWS, and we need to break it. Wargaming needs to do this sooner rather than later. No time is needed to see the negative impacts on the player base. It’s time to act.

45 Comments:

  1. The meta changed long ago. Dead eye is just amplifying its effects. We had BBs camping long before deadeye was even on the drawing board.

    • Largely due to over-powered CVs – like MvR.

    • And why did they camp? Endless HE spam from every direction. You try pushing and every dd and cruiser zips off to the back leaving you to barbecue. Nobody is going to keep doing that over and over.

    • Frankly I use dead against the enemy in many ways . One being hoping from island cover to cover in my German BBs . It has lead me to rediscover the art of using my secondary battery to better effect . Plus the shell grouping permit one to simply turn the helm over to avoid hits. Perhaps Notser should make more more use of his A S W keys . he should imbrace the suck. After all he was one of CC clowns that got secondary guns nerfed . So he should be punished in my mind

    • the camping at the back meta was long ago, back then almost half my games were draws, i have over 2000 games that ended in a draw back then camping was the meta and deadeye just made it easier, i remember a few years back WG tried to make BBs push forward and then gave it up to introduce a ton of HE spammers and now Deadeye + HE spammer = there isnt any point in pushing, when a decent Thunderer can rack up 200-300k dmg in less than 10 minutes, GK can snipe and get citadels from 15km out whats the point in pushing. had a few games in my GK where i 1 shot cruisers from max range which was previously nearly impossible to accomplish every game.

    • Not me, lol I’ll brawl in just about any bb? Took a full health thunderer out from 11 km then devstruck a Minotaur from &km in my Montana…. 200 k damage and we still lost it was fun though

  2. Put their PR boots on. Very poor choice of words.

  3. What boggles me is they have said they’d change the ships rather than adjust the talents themselves, when they first released the rework. Like, are they stupid?

  4. yeah, I’ve been okay with the game even though there were aircraft carriers in the game like in ranked and clan battles. But ever since the deadeye thing got introduced, I’ve been avoiding the game because it has become a game that isn’t fun to play and isn’t worth the time playing when there are other games that are clearly much more fun to play. Wargaming has forgotten that a game must be worth your time to play and is fun/entertaining to play. I’ve found the game to have shifted to a phase where most players thinks that sitting in the back is the way to play. It makes close quarter engagments rare and resulting constant blowout matches which made the game boring. Whether you are on the winning team or the losing team, the battles aren’t fun anymore.

  5. Last night had a game with 3 Thunderers in a division in my team. Other side had a division with 2 Thunderers. Fucking hate Dead Eye and this rework.

  6. I stopped playing after the Duke of York event, I was a alpha and beta tester and nothing this game has done since then has made it look worth returning to.

  7. The thing is Zoup, the way you discussed this, it appears you’re taking these cuts piece by piece. “Oh the CV rework, oh the commander rework, etc”. Its cumulative. I’m a cruiser main, and I’d like to think, a moderately decent one. I guess what really gets me is that they’ve been killing the cruisers. And don’t forget the toxic monetization games they’ve played – that dockyard BS and the loot crate BS stiffing you with a bunch of BS, garbage ships to get to the good ones, etc, etc, etc.

    The CV rework sucked the joy out of my AA cruisers. Oh how I loved setting up a flak trap in my old T6 Cleveland. I had that ship speced out to be an AA monster – tuck it in behind an island supporting my DDs and wait for the red CV to try and pounce….and then unleash DFAA and wipe out a significant fraction of the red air, largely neutering their CV. Their play, my counter play (spec for AA, use friendly DD as bait, position to set the trap, then spring it). I used to do the same with my DM. Now? What’s the point? The air comes back, again, and again, and again…with no end, and no effective counter play. Yeah, a good AA cruiser can hold off the CV, can deter the CV, but its always there, always a threat. Wiping out a squadron used to be to a CV like taking 2 or 3 cits in a BB or having 1/2 the HP shaved off a DD – it forced them to be a lot more conservative in their play. Now? Nothing. You know, iChase I think it was, got it right when he said that WG is in error in re the CV rework. WG looks and says “look, more people are playing CVs, more people like playing CVs, the rework is a success!”. He pointed out that they aren’t considering what people think playing against the new CVs. And that, clearly is a failure. Tell me, who, exactly, likes playing against the low tier IJN CVs? The ones that can torp and torp and torp endlessly without any hope if you’re on the receiving end? If the red CV chooses to focus you, you are literally nothing more than a human controlled target. There is nothing you can do. Been there, done that on both sides – it sucks @$$ to be on the receiving end. If you spend the whole game trying to dodge, your turrets are never on target and you do sh*t for damage.

    And now with the commander rework: So, cruisers lost one of their playstyles with the CV rework – the AA / counter-CV play is gone. And now, what do we have? How do cruisers fit into the current meta other than as human controlled targets for dead eye BBs? It used to be that with some maneuverability build and fire / IFHE, you could dance around at distance and spam the BBs while supporting DDs with your radar and sonar. So, how’s that work out today? Support DDs – get deleted. OK, take the standard US cruiser play and island hide…..at least back in the day, the BB on the other side of the map couldn’t nuke you from orbit, or the other end of the map. Now? It sure sounds like they can. Pretty much you have to open up at least one angle to get fire out…and that opens up the ability for a BB to nuke you at ICBM distances. So, what, exactly, are cruisers supposed to do in the current game, especially at high tier? Are they the low tier BBs to the low tier IJN CV’s – human targets to make the dead eye BB players have a good time? Are cruisers just supposed to take it? Heck, at least low tier BBs can handle multiple IJN CV torp strikes. It doesn’t take too many cits from a Yammy to wipe a DM off the map.

    And then never mind the BS of stealing my 25 or so 19 point captains I worked so hard for. And then never mind forcing me to do the literal work for all 100 plus captain respec. This was the thousandth cut for me. Rare is the person that files for divorce after one incident – its only after being abused again, and again, and again, and again, and yet again. And everyone thinks its the last incident…no, it isn’t necessarily that. It’s the whole series of events. WG, it isn’t me, it’s you….and we need to take a break.

    • I’m sorry I can’t read all this

    • Тактика/Стратегия

      @Otsigo “The CV rework sucked the joy out of my AA cruisers” – first: before rework CV was powerful and can kill you in one raid. So, back in the days you have OP AA against OP CV. Now CV can’t destroy you in one raid. so we dont need to return AA that dont leave any chance for CV player
      Second: its bad game design if you can lose all you planes just because some ship pop up behind the island and sit for 20 min waiting for game to end.
      “He pointed out that they aren’t considering what people think playing against the new CVs. And that, clearly is a failure.” – around 75% of players newer played CV (its WG statistics), and most of the players dont know how to act against airplanes. Sure its not fun to play against something that you dont know haw to play. But it dosent prove that CV is broken or OP.

      And what can show how powerful CV is – numbers. Here CV win rate of a GOOD players https://prnt.sc/105k9n5
      Here EXP of a GOOD players https://prnt.sc/105k9n3
      And here a damage of GOOD players https://prnt.sc/105k9q3

      As you can see, CV on 4 level on one of the weakest ships even in a GOOD hands.

      Try CV, and in a 100 – 200 battles you will start to asking for CV buff

    • @Тактика/Стратегия What I’m getting from this is that low tier CV’s are crap to play and also crap to play against… Not a strong argument for the success of the CV rework, at least for lower tiers.
      I think those numbers change pretty significantly at the higher tiers though?

      Either way, the average damage and exp per game numbers are not a good indicator of whether or not a class is fun to play against.

      Exp reward rate is something WG controls and there are other stats besides damage to consider in terms of their impact in a game.
      E.g.: how much damage does a CV allow its allies to do through spotting?

      If people who like CV’s think they need a buff because they’re not great to play with but a good chunk of the remaining players think they’re terrible to play against then at a minimum I think we can say CV’s are not in a good place and the rework was not a success?

      I personally don’t like CV’s. Most of the engagements I have with them are annoying at best. I don’t play CV’s so can’t really comment on what they’re like to play but I play against them pretty regularly and can you tell you I don’t enjoy the experience very much.

      Btw, not saying you must feel the same way. If you enjoy playing against them, great, but I don’t and it seems a great many other people feel the same way.

    • Тактика/Стратегия

      @T Smith “What I’m getting from this is that low tier CV’s are crap to play and also crap to play against… Not a strong argument for the success of the CV rework” – CV made to be that week because of players that doesn’t want to learn how to counter it. 90% of streamer hate CV and they audience too. They dont want to know how to play against CV they want CV to be dead.

      “I think those numbers change pretty significantly at the higher tiers though?” – not really – Here stat of level 10 super unique players damage https://prnt.sc/w8yx9z
      and winrate – https://prnt.sc/105rf5z

      “Either way, the average damage and exp per game numbers are not a good indicator of whether or not a class is fun to play against” – true, but its hard to measure fun, for me in engaging when i dodge bombs or torpedos knowing attacks patters and timing of CV squadron. For someone fun to play against week player. Other having fun when they play against stronger enemy.

      “Exp reward rate is something WG controls and there are other stats besides damage to consider in terms of their impact in a game.
      E.g.: how much damage does a CV allow its allies to do through spotting?” – true. CV best spoters. But we have a statistics that can measure what impact ship has on a game. Its winrate. and you can tell that CV win rate is far from impressive even.

      “If people who like CV’s think they need a buff because they’re not great to play with but a good chunk of the remaining players think they’re terrible to play against then at a minimum I think we can say CV’s are not in a good place and the rework was not a success?” – No. if we have old CV they dominate. So its up to other players to decide what they like. What was then or what is now.
      And its hard to say of success of new CV mechanic if players dont play it and / or dont know how to play against it. Plus its impossible to balance a ship in this conditions. Today we have a situation when CV can drop a perfect shot and RNG make you miss. Its was made becouse most of the players ignoring planes.

      “I personally don’t like CV’s. Most of the engagements I have with them are annoying at best. I don’t play CV’s so can’t really comment on what they’re like to play but I play against them pretty regularly and can you tell you I don’t enjoy the experience very much.” – you must play CV, there is no other way to learn how to deal with them. after a 30 – 50 battles of CV you will have no problem with them.

      I playing on every class of the ship (here my stats on 2021 https://prnt.sc/105rwyn), and with CV i have no problems. its easy to dodge them. But you must know haw to play against it, attack patterns and timings. And this is THE biggest problem of CV, you cant learn how to counter it without playing it.

    • @Тактика/Стратегия I’m not saying the rework wasn’t the result of low player engagement and perception, just that if the main aim was to make CV’s a fun part of the game and I see CV players along with everyone else saying they aren’t happy with the state of CV’s then there is something wrong.
      Assumption I’m making here is that the intention of the rework was to make them a fun part of general gameplay.

      I’ll give CV’s a try again but from the little time I did spend in one I didn’t enjoy the style of gameplay so its unlikely I’ll invest much time into the class.

      Anyway, I’m not necessarily saying CV’s shouldn’t be in the game. Just saying that something about the way they interact with other classes in the game feels off to me.

      To be fair, I think its a combination of things and not just CV’s, though I do think that CV’s in their current state are part of the problem.

      All this backline sniping combined with CV spotting ability is already an issue for DD’s and CA’s.
      Add in a CV being able to force you to choose between a deck full of AP bombs/broadside full of torps, or, trying to dodge causing you to present a little more broadside to enemy team than you might want and it can lead to being punished for no reason other than that the CV decided to drop your ship rather than the one next to you.
      Does that happen every game? Nope. But when it does its one of the less enjoyable experiences in WoWs, for me at least.

  8. I’ve still have hope for this game, I’m not leaving even though it’s unbearable.

    • I appreciate the hopeful outlook! I love the game too, and I hope it gets better

    • That’s where I’m at. I’m financially invested quite heavily. I hate where the game is at currently, but I can’t very well just leave either.

    • I have had really fun matches recently, not every bb is camping in the back, some will push even in high tier, but the thing is it’s not every match. Right now I find the game bearable and I find my moments, but there has to be some changes to the game otherwise it’s just gonna keep getting worse with players leaving and even more camping.

    • I’m not leaving (yet?), but I’m not giving WG another dime either. I used to be a huge whale too.

    • same – and I have $hundreds of dollars spent.. and this is my 99% game playing — @51yrs old no time to start anew.

  9. My only regret is that nerfing Deadeye would make Roma no longer viable. She’s so much fun now that she is actually workable.

    • @Tyfighters002 Verkerk
      No.
      Flamu said everything i needed to hear

    • Tyfighters002 Verkerk

      @cobrazax oh my got the worst cc ever said somthing better take it as the word of god lmao

    • @Tyfighters002 Verkerk
      He knows what he is talking about more than most players. Sap has no advantage vs ap against them.
      Turtleback is useless vs bbs

    • @cobrazax Meanwhile Potato Quality and Sea Lord Mountbatten both said the Italians are…fine. Personally I’m going to believe the guys that don’t make their money playing a game they seem to hate and really obviously wish they could transition to something else but their viewers only care about that one game so when they DID try to move away from it on twitch their numbers took a nose dive and since that’s funding their lifestyle…well…back to the game they hate playing again for the money and views.

      Lets face it, Flamu is a Toxic whinebaby. Zoup, by contrast, tends to be the ‘Everything is fine, honest!’ WG shill.

      And they both agree that Deadeye is bad for the game…let that sink in. Rare is it that we get a consensus this large across all CCs that something was a bad idea. Even the CV Rework didn’t get a universal agreement with Zoup thinking it was fine and ‘good for the game’ plus a few others generally enjoyed it. Deadeye is the first thing I’ve seen ALL CCs agree was a stupid move. Searaptor, Sealord Mountbatten, Potato Quality, Flamu, Flambass, heck even LittleWhiteMouse, who said that its benefits were exagerrated (with hard data to prove it) STILL said it was a bad idea.

    • Tyfighters002 Verkerk

      @luketfer thank you dude, I dont have the mental stamina to explain this to everyone

  10. Most people don’t want to grind every day and spend money like a whale In this game or a move on…..If I could get all my money back I would leave right now…all this game Is about spending money…..I enjoy the game alot but only can take so much. Now your crying for crs rights they don’t need any after all I did was try to get away from there ships with there stupid he……..

  11. After trying it out and finding it boring, i took off DE on my battleships. Much more fun.

  12. Lol nerf it please you don’t know how wargaming works, they rarely reverse things implemented in game unless spreadsheet says so. I would also say the secondaries being nerfed also hurts pushing why bother.

    • > they rarely reverse things implemented in game

      They used to, in the first few years after Beta. They were a lot more receptive to feedback and criticism back then. But something got really rotten in Lesta around 2018(?)

  13. I’ve been playing on and off since the start of open Beta nothing has ever made me actually not want to open up the game like the latest commander rework. It felt like the game was completely different and I am not even sure if I will go back.

  14. Zoup: spot destroyers, kill destroyers.
    Other CV players: farm on BBs.
    Other players: report CV for no AA cover.

  15. the game starts and the BBs done bother even moving …..they see no need

  16. The culmination of their screw-ups are coming to a head. It isn’t that the concepts are wrong (CV changes, expanding commander skills) it is that their execution is terrible.

    They were on notice immediately with the PTS. They ignored it. The update came and went. They continue to ignore it. Their actions demonstrate a severe disconnect with their customers and a serious arrogance against them as well.

    WG has made so many bad decisions over the years, how could they ever get their customers back? It’s like being in a bad relationship. At some point, apologies are meaningless and the break up is completely unavoidable. No amount of therapy can heal the wounds WG causes.

    I write this as I sit here, in port, trying to get the motivation to play. And it just isn’t there. I think I’ll just log into DCS, power up my F-16, and go shoot down some planes that fly the colors of a certain communist unmentionable country.

    • totally agree.
      they dont seem to care about their own players anymore…feedback from experienced players means nothing to them…hell even zoup the WG pet started to notice!!

  17. I love dead I never had so much fun Using my destroyer to sneak up the flank and torpedo all those battleships that I just sitting still

  18. I quit playing the game when they start coming out with premium ships that were over power. AKA The Belfast

  19. The only thing WG is monitoring in my opinion is how well the ‘cash cow’ performs!

    • I think a major mistake they’re making is that they’re attributing things that the pandemic caused (more people playing, since there is nothing to do, more people spending money since they stopped going to restaurants etc.) to their brilliant game design decisions. For all their gusto about analyzing data, I wouldn’t be surprised if their management is actually extremely bad at understanding what the data actually means.

  20. Dead-Eye, WG’s version of the next James Bond movie.

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