There is NO Situational awareness bug after patch 5.5!
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Report iChaseGaming – Knows too much about the game mechanics.
All I know is that since the patch, situational awareness feels different. Something has changed.
If you don’t already have your fill of wows replays here feel free to check out my channel. I don’t and never would/could try to compete with ichase. I enjoy his videos too. I post a video 5 days a week , just on wows, and only have 130 subscribers but the videos get 100+ views ( 500+ yesterday ). If you like them then thats great. If not then no harm no foul. Not going to spam my link on his channel. You can find it by clicking the my name :-)
Well, I am a carrier captain so this really doesn’t apply to me
Fubuki Wukii!!! thnx for the definitive proof. never doubted it at all.
I’m sure you noticed it too, but if a target becomes detected by you, you don’t see them for the first few moments. Consider the aim assist that wows performs, where the camera follows whoever you have targeted. That starts happening even before you can physically see the ship. The same happens when 2 destroyers of equal detection range encounter eachother. You will get a detected notification, but the opponent will not appear for a few moments.
I believe this has something to do with why you can still see someone while they have no detected notification.
Good video though, talking about that guys cousin was a bit creepy lmao.
Chase: any news on the 7% dispersion module? After watching the sail n chat video i dismantled it in favor of the aa upgrade. Prior to your post i kept telling myself the nagato accuracy seemed “off” and your video seemed like the vindication i was looking for. Curious to hear about your conclusion.
Why does SI have a delay at all?
Good vid, must have taken you a while to find that perfect example against that Chapy. I think it would be easy to explain to people who have played WoT where you get un-spotted 6 seconds after the enemy looses sight of you but in this game its 2 seconds? Interesting. I always figured because unlike WoT, the “Spotted” icon is always on and not just for a few seconds that it only goes away when you get un-spotted. I think that mislead a lot of people.
Unfortunatelly it might not be the prove you suggest, because there is (or was as 5.5. was supposed to get rid of it afaIk) also a lapse prior to getting spotted. Which included ships already in line of sight a few seconds before they got rendered (at least before 5.5.). You could often see the guns actually firing right before the ship poped up. Your SA pops up 1 to 2 seconds after that secondary fired. Couldn’t it have been the (old) lapse while entering detection range and not the assumed (new) “bug” while leaving it? SA simply popping up late since this behaviour has been there before. I’m not suggesting there is this new bug though, I just think this might not be the 100% prove so many would like to see.
Great video Chase, and yet you will still have people saying “NO” – it is bugged now!!! LoLYep, I checked – still doing it…. :)
here is video link to prove otherwise: https://youtu.be/csT0ppBRlas?t=113 where is 3 seconds delay when enemy isokaze pops in and out of the smoke? he is only visible between the puffs
Well done little video but I still think situation is off but I think it is more a glitch that happens sometimes but most of the time it works fine. I wish I had a replay to show my point. I think this is a pre 5.5 patch problem though. I find at times, not always you get a player that manages to nail you LONG after detection has gone off and after your do some turns like S turns and at 1st I just figured it was lucky shots as I know myself I have taken guesses and hit undetected DDs. I then began wondering if it was a hack of some sort as others were getting similar hits on them. Now I am not quick to call hack and junk like that, nor are my in game friends but I have come upon times where I was long out of detection, done evasive turns to avoid educated guess shots made at me, yet still gotten nailed…either the bug/glitch is real and may only happen at times or there is a hack out there only some players are using. I have seen videos of hacks where your lit in yellow boxes that shows your crit points and that still shows your ship if your ship is hidden behind an island. I wonder if this hack could be the cause of these magic shots.Either way something is up and it been happening for months now and I am not a rookie player as I have been playing since CB. Again I am not one quick to call hack or glitch BUT something is up. I expect it is a bug in the code…I have tested a few programs over the decades and bugs can happen where if you hit Q then F keys the game glitches some how for example. I expect that maybe the case here, not exactly hitting Q then F keys but something where if certain conditions are met the game glitches some how. Thats my opinion anyways, I will try to remember to make a replay should I have a battle where I have to wonder and sent it into chase.
this is not the bug …. the bug is if u fire and u pop smoke u will be visible for 20 secs inside of your smoke even tho u shouldnt be visible (do a complete stop and everything… i shoot at dds doing that mistake all the time and its realy bad for them)…… DUDE Get your facts together…..
How would you make your reticle scalable?
Nice. SA seems to work the same as before and now we know it has a 3 sec OFF delay in which you are still visible. WG didn’t tell us that before… so we have found better info. bad bad WG for not mentioning that delay…
But are these tests also 100% conclusive for the situation when you smoke up and then get detected in smoke without SA going ON ? DDs are sitting quite odd in smoke while I can see them. Will ask next time if their SA was going ON or not.
hehe Fubukiwuki :D
why dont you try getting within range and then smoking out :)
I was not aware of the 3 second extra spotting on the SA, that needs to go down to zero really.
sadly this video doesnt prove anything. what most ppl are complaining about is visibility in smoke that doesnt function as before. in EU forums you have a nice post with videos where you can see blinking in and out of smoke that doesnt have 3 seconds rule. nowadays you are spotted for at least 3 seconds and sometimes more even though your SA icon isnt showing up.
iChase, what about the entire fleet in the background 4:25 that keeps blinking in and out? With the 3 second rule they shouldn’t be able to blink in and out within a second of each blink. You can’t tell me that is in line with the detection rules. What you can see on the minimap is that they go from full to hollow and back several times. What I think has happened, is that the game went from treating the secondaries and the main guns/torps as different to the same. Previously I remember my secondaries firing at hidden enemies now and then. With this in mind it all falls into place, the secondaries could see the target, while I couldn’t. And now it is even between me and the secondaries. This is how the devs claim it has always been like this, as it was only really the player that didn’t SEE the rule. And as such, previously until 0.5.5 was one very long bug period.
Cant speak for everybody, but it does seem situational awareness is off, but from what i have seen is more like I will come under fire from multiple ships before my awareness goes off. And not just the usually speculation shots people fire into choke points.
But the dispersion mod is still broken…
Just another “i don’t know anything about ingame mechanics and e wargaming for false programming ” bug. The community gets more annoying day by day
AI controlled secondaries aren’t really suited to prove that a server side bug does not exist. The server always tracks your position. It doesn’t matter if you’re spotted or not. If a bug like this really doesn’t exist then the only plausible alternative theory would be a delay between the two clients (the shooter and the target) with the server somewhere inbetween. If both players happen to have bad latency during the incident the shooter might still see his target even though the target’s situational awareness has already signaled him that he is unspotted. This would result in a time window of maybe 1 second but not much more. What people also tend to ignore is the fact that one can quite easily predict the next few seconds of movement a target you are aiming at will do, even if it suddenly disappears. Being invisible doesn’t mean you can’t be hit people. On the other hand I personally had some weird situations where people managed to citadel me in my chapayev 15 seconds after i dropped from detection while slowing down and turning hard. And this didn’t just happen once.
Any one know if the american commemorative flag is a one time thing?
My theory for this delay is that maybe the secondaries are handled client side, as in the secondaries activate while the client can see the enemy and are in range. But, similar to WoT’s render mechanics, by the time the client receives or stops receiving render info (or maybe a signal to stop render), the client is still rendering the enemy ship, and so the secondaries keep sending the fire signal to the server. Maybe future patches will remove this delay in calculations.
Or maybe this is a conscious design decision, like the Radio Operator skill in WoT which allows enemies to be spotted for two seconds extra or something. This may be a gap for the addition of a captain skill in future.
What do you think, Chase??
Couldn’t it be only on certain ships, maybe certain combinations?
I think something like the Umikaze would be best for this test, because it has such a close spotting range that if you were still detected, you would continue to get shot at by the Yamato.
No, there wouldn’t be such a global WTF going on, players with thousands of DD games wouldn’t act like this. Either they adjust the description or they adjust this bug. This is retarded, we don’t need their Russian crap this way
You are just amazing for taking your time to make that girl smile. Really. We need more people like you man!
Hey iChase are you on the north american or european server? cause i found your name in the european one, but i think you said earlier, i think in the easter egg video, that you are canadian?? (sorry if im wrong) ^^
hi chase can you please do a video about the tashkent as it’s the only Russian destroyer I’m having problems with and at the rate I’m going I’ll free xp pass it
if ur right about 3 sec, I’ll be seen all the time when I’m laying smoke and keep going, not pop in and out of that smoke. And maybe I missing something but why 3 sec delay?!? what is the point?! In the next patch maybe guns will fire 2 sec after clicking the button and “works as intended”!
I never think anything in a game is broken. Except if it’s crashing. I just accept the game as it plays. Thank you, iChase all your videos are fun and helpful. Good luck with your channel.
what about incoming fire alert.. im using it alot, but now, its not 100% accurate..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ3thhtdWiA, this is the bug and has nothing to do with situational awareness. the only way its connected to awareness is that it does not proc while the bug is visible aka ur planes are visible on the minimap and on screen over whole map and u dont even get the awareness proc that ure seen.
I really dont know if this is convincing me. Just yesterday I was sitting in the smoke moving and turning slowly with SA off while an Aoba pounded three salvos into me. Just a few matches later a Lo Yang sailed about 7 km away from and was complete detected. He did not realized until I started firing at him. He instantly reacted. that guy was surely not an Idiot. He was super unicum.
the idea that it might be a Server sided issues as someone mentioned seems legit.
im going to get the fubukiwuki soon :3
Although there is proof in your video that 2-3 sec delay existed before that is not our main problem.
The real problem is with the detection inside smoke. After patch 0.5.5 the smoke/concealment mechanics have somehow changed in such a way that under certain circumstances your ship stays visible way longer than it should.
This is what everyone is complaining about and what most people report. Getting shot inside smoke while not detected.
Since it seems that you haven’t tested any smoke scenarios could you please test it again?
How are you getting the training room to work in the 0.5.5.1 update it doesn’t work anymore
so how come you can pop in and out of smoke within a second and then pop into smoke again within 1 second prior to the patch? that delay should affect that as well.
So how do you explain that DDs were blinking when using smoke at max speed before and are constantly spotted now when doing the same thing?
I don’t say that anything is broken, I won’t get to support with it as the support from WG is crap anyway even if you have really something that is broken. Three times I had a real problem and all three time the technical support answered me, what I need to do in my WoT to repair it, even though nothing like this exists in WoWs. Fortunately I managed to solve the problem on my own or it vanished with the next update. But I would like you to explain me something I really do not understand. Situation: DD runs away sideways at full speed and he pops smoke. He is outrunning his smoke and got visible again. This happens everytime until he laid the full smoke screen or he get slower. Prior to 0.5.5 it was always the same. The DD vanished, outrunned its smoke, he popped up for a second and vanished again. Now he is visibl the whole time or just vanish for a second if he isn’t fast enough to fully outrun his smoke.
I know WG says, that has something to do with the delay to the client and on the client, but prior 0.5.5 I was playing via satellite with answering times of 350-450ms shown in the game. After the update to 0.5.5 the game was suddenly unplayable, as I got massive lags. As I had still my old slow normal internet connection I routed only the traffic for WoWs via this line, the rest goes still via sattelite, so nothing can kill my slow connection with the good answering times. So now I have in game times of 75-80ms. So if this is something related to the client and the connection, shouldn’t be this effect vice versa?
Just curious, as I don’t care anymore what WG or anyone says about this. I play my DDs relative aggressive an when I’m spotted I first try to run away and then pop smoke if the is no other way. Since 0.5.5 it is useless to pop smoke in this situation, as you keep being spotted the whole time while you are laying smoke, because of your speed. Slowing down infront of enemies two tiers higher than you is just a death sentence. So if it stays this way I can save credits by not using premium smoke any more, as since 0.5.5 I nearly never pop smoke at all now, as it doesn’t interrupt the incoming fire as before.
pft reddit and their shipposting. Also was waiting for you to do the Fubukiwuki!
People just find thing too piss and moan about even if they do not understand how it works.
I think the “flickering” bug in detection confused us prior to 0.5.5 –> masking how the game was really working. Now that things are actually working we are all surprised :D
it never shows me when i’m detected. i don’t get the little icon
my issue with situational awareness is that it doesn’t go off period sometimes. Like shells will be on their way towards my ship (10+ second travel time), and I won’t be notified i am spotted until they are already about to hit and it’s to late.
Thanks for clarifying the Situational Awareness issue up.
I think it was being called a bug because I don’t recall this change appearing in the patch notes.
What? You have a stock 7.5km surface detection in the Blyskawica. Your SA goes off when he is 7.5km away and he comfirms that. You turn around and your SA turns off when you are 7.5km away, but Tedster says you were spotted until 7.8km. So .3km or about 3-4 secs later than it should have.
The same applies when LoS is lost on a target. If you drop smoke or go behind an island pre 5.5 you’d disappear. After 5.5 the 3 sec delay is still applied regardless of LoS. Look at your pre 5.5 videos and you’ll see DDs ‘blinking’ in smoke much faster than every 3s.
WG has claimed the 3s rule has been there since alpha, but I think they are wrong (or there was a bug before, DDs always blinked in smoke screens from what I remember, and I played since the alpha/cbt)
Watch the enemy Nicholas in this clip. It is clearly blinking much faster than 3 secs (and oddly shows on the minimap hollow, as if it were out of render distance) https://youtu.be/ahN6VpLKU0Y?t=1m11s
Hey IChase I hope You’re fine and thanks for this video but I had one question how do you make multiplayer training rooms because I had the mod but it didn’t work
the odd game where wg turn off SA would be neat
Izumo: Situational awareness bug? Pshhh I get spotted at 19.3 km >:|
Chase, we both know there will be that one guy that will STILL say that you’re wrong. Great contributions to figuring out just how the game works in certain instances by the way (like this one).
I’m sorry, iChase. Something is *very* off with SA on the EU server. It could be lag related or it can be the skill itself. I honestly have no clue. But that’s coming from someone who have played tons of games as a DD in high tier. I actually raised the issue with the people I play with, about something being off with the detection at patch day. I hadn’t even been on forums yet to realize many others were raising the very same issues with detection. So as much as I respect your opinion in the matter, I’ll trust my gut on this one.
Chase, can you explain how the commemorative flag works to me? Can I put it on a ship, then next battle take it off and put it on a different one? Is it single use? I understand the buffs that it gives, but can it be transferred from ship to ship?
Hullo…. I think the “bug” testing is nice, neat… but lacks the same test in smoke. The SA bug I had/have experienced involved smoke. Fact is I’ve seen, through zoom, Mahans and other ships just parked inside of smoke, like a dog sticking its head under a table. “IF I cant see them they cant see me.”
Do your test over, run through various scenarios involving smoke. Also, since you are testing things, why not test the combination of firing, smoking, stopping? Thanks and appreciate your efforts
lovely training room demo ty!
Fubukiwuki…for some reason my mind wanders to Kancolle when I heard this.
Thanks iChase for taking time to test it out.This is quite re-assuring..that nothing is broken :D
The fubuki is also the class of ship that rammed JFK’s PT109
Regarding the secondaries on ships and the spotting mechanics, I’m not entirely sure that the firing of secondaries of a ship is definitive proof that you were still detected in that Udaloi replay. I’m pretty sure I remember the secondaries on my battleships continuing to fire for a few seconds at destroyers that popped smoke and became undetected. That is to say, the destroyer disappeared from my view, then a few seconds later, my secondaries fired.
Is it possible that what players are experiencing is a server lag issue? I’ve heard the greatest amount of bug reports about Situational Awareness from the EU Server. Perhaps something went wrong with the implementation of the new patch on the EU Server that did not affect the NA Server? Just a theory.
You vanished from the Yamato’s view at 7.8, but you become detected moving in around 7.5. So your detection range is 7.5 *but you’re still spotted moving away beyond this distance*. This is the new behavior. SA is working as it always has, but now other ships can see you for 2-3 seconds beyond when they should lose sight of you. THIS IS THE BUG.
I think both sides are in a sense correct here.
I accept your evidence that secondaries would still fire in the 3 second window. But prior to this patch, players would lose you at once (at least the visual image of the ship – I guess the game could still have considered the ship targeted without your knowledge (or at least I would lose the image on this computer)).
That was why ships would sometimes keep blinking in and out of sight (usually as a result of either the DD being observed popping smoke, but continuing forward at full speed and outrunning the puffs faster than they were made – or sometimes the entire enemy fleet would blink if the DD doing this was the only one with eyes on target). Ships aren’t blinking in that way anymore.
I have this idea that I’ve seen a dev say that the change in 0.5.5 was concious and specifically to counter this annoyance. I’ll dig a little around and see if I can find it.
Anyway; I would propose a simple change whereby the “!” icon changing from yellow to green and fading away would have that “color change + fade” sequence slowed down to match the duration of “residual” detection.
You’re the man iChase
But…but…panicking and witch hunting is all we know how to do as a community! Logic has no place here!
I’ll be sure to show her the end of this vid, just to set her off and annoy the crap out of her parents! xD
Thanks dude :)
ichase, it’s not you, it’s your combat dolphin!
I think the problem may be happening in matches where *everyone* is in a very small part of the map, spotting and firing at each other. It might be a lag thing due to that? Star trek online had similar issues with massive numbers of server calls being made by players which were lagging the crap out of the server, this might be a similar issue?
Is that your reticle submission?
iChase you muppet … dont want to rain on your parade but in the “example” you provided .. that secoundary gun on the chapayev shot at you not because you were STILL visible after your Situational Awarenes icon went away but because you SHOT at the Chapayey from within the smoke and became visible AGAIN to the Chapayev ( and its AI controlled turrets ) , the icon of the SA blinks again after 1 sec to prove that since SA need a sec to “turn on”.
iChase: how dare you try to bring video proof to an internet fight. lol. Ive never noticed any issues with situational awareness.
I think the situational awareness shouldn’t turn off until you actually are not spotted. I don’t understand that delay. maybe this was added in the last patch(5.4) when they were trying to balance destroyers?
can I join your tester team?
I’m sorry man but something really has changed. I was hoping you would run your experiment with smoke have someone say when u are spotted and when you drop out of detection and see if there was a moment when your SA alarm went away and your friend can still spot you.
With regards to the Chapayev, we need to consider given the range it was engaging the aircraft, the captain on it had AFT. However, any non-DP secondaries GAIN the buff as well. So in short, Chase is correct that the secondaries are able to fire and spot INDEPENDENTLY of the main guns. Hence the confusion with people jumping to conclusions without seeing first hand what caused it.
And I can confirm with a replay of myself in the Gnevy and charging into the Myoko. The main guns couldn’t see but the secondaries did open up whilst I was not detected for a brief window. It is the bot secondaries that’s the problem and probably intended as most secondaries on these ships were designed to FIGHT OFF or intimate destroyers not to attack.
Is it possible they changed smoke screen’s, made the area smaller or ticks slower, recently you have slow prior to popping smoke if you want to stay undetected in a destroyer.
Team FubukiWuki. Best thing ever
That’s a great bit of info there, really like how in depth you’ll go to prove your points.
Chase the Chapayev secondary wasn’t shooting at you but flakking allied aircraft which just flew out of his range right after. You are wrong
So how come destroyers disappeared the moment they used smoke in patches prior to 0.5.5? Now they stay visible three seconds after popping smoke
FUBUKIWUKI! That is hilarious. Hope you finish your research on the gun fire control system. As I mentioned before, i’m gonna get the Des Moines soon, so I was wondering, what modules do you equip your Des Moines with? Nice video as always and keep up the great work! FUBUKIWUKI!
so you didn’t test it on asia and europe server where the symptoms appeared?? omg talk about wasting everyones fucking time. we have very few dd’s left on asian server
I have main battery mod on a few of my ships and my shooting has been so bad, I don’t know if it’s me or a bug.
i see ur multicloured reticle there…. if u can put a pink fluffy unicorn on there, i would get it 10000000000%
chase that’s what the bug is, you’ve shown that yes it did happen prior to the most recent update, but perhaps with far less frequency than is currently being experienced, it still is a bug in the detection perk. the only reason i am convinced of the bug is because i felt a significant difference in the detection mechanics post update, but this was before i had heard anyone else in the community mention the possible existence of a bug. nice crosshair BTW.
Does camo really work or are you wasting $$$$
“FubukiWuki” has to be a thing now. That is just an awesome name for it!
I think it happens randomly. At the end of this game by flamu, I really can’t think of any way he was shot like that. https://youtu.be/t2utGQwrzKg
Good to know. I don’t play my Minekaze very often (and not US DDs at all), but it’s good to know that the myth has been debunked. :)
Thanks for taking the time to do the testing and such on things like this.
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