World of Warships Nueve de Julio “Controversy” – Let Sleeping Ships Lie

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Today I cover a topic I rather not, because I think its silly. However, a lot of my followers and other individuals have been intrigued by the ongoing conversation regarding the Nueve de Julio. I am providing my opinion, but it basically boils down to this. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. It’s a ship, in a game. There are other ships with dubious histories. This includes Navy’s that tried to exterminate an entire religion of peoples and started a World War.

Looks like we can;t go a single month without a World of Warships “controversy”. This one needn’t be.

57 Comments:

  1. 100% agree. Where do you end if you begin along the road? Should I be upset at an Argentine ship in the game because the invaded the Falklands, killing many British solders? Should we remove the Bismark because it detonated the Hood, killing 1400 British seamen? 1400!!!! Its an historical game with historical ships. No one would every play it it every ship was treated likes it was its real world twin.

    What next….PUBG banned because someone was once killed with a frying pan?

    • Thats great. Doesnt mean you are not wrong. Killing innocents is killing innocents. One is not right, the other wrong. They were all built to kill innocents. Simple as. You can call it straw, I dont care. It killed 10000 people…full stop.

    • Military men trained and armed, fighting in a war between nations vs. civilians with no defenses, secretly detained, tortured, killed and disappeared by the regime that reined over their own country. I’m sorry you don’t recognize the difference.

      BTW, how do you arrive 10,000 British fatalities figure related to Bismark? 1,415 were killed in the sinking of HMS Hood. Even if you add the 2,200 fatalities from Bismark that’s less than half of your number.

    • Andy Your argument is pure horsecrap. The people on the Hood or any other warship are NOT civilians. They’re combatants in a war. And don’t overlook that the Hood was trying to do the exact same thing to the Bismarck that the Bismarck ended up doing to the Hood. It’s called war. You’re trying to kill the enemy. And enemy combatants are not civilians nor are they “innocents”.

    • YTPartyTonight I agree with you completely that there’s a huge difference between military men fighting each other in a war and a ship that ended up being used as a secret prison, etc. That said, the ship itself didn’t torture anyone. The ship was little more than a building floating on water at that point in time. It could have just as easily been a freighter that had been used for this purpose.

      I’ll admit that I’m not entirely comfortable with the NdJ as a premium ship, knowing this history. At the same time, I also know that the ship didn’t commit any of these atrocities. It was the people in charge who were guilty of the crimes. Given my druthers, I’d rather a different ship got used, but other than the Gen Belgrano, which has her own issues, I don’t know if there’s another Argentinian ship of this class that has a clean history that could be used.

    • That is one of the most naive statements I have ever read. During the 2nd world war 98% of all soldiers who died were conscripts, called up by the country with no choice, given a uniform and gun and told to shoot. They did it because the British Isles were about to be invaded (as far as they knew). They were not career military personnel, they were men, women, fathers, sons, daughters and mums who had no choice but to fight. The Allies were defending themselves from Axis aggression. The men were defending their families.

      Dont even think about comparing Britain with Germany. British men and women died defending Europe and the world from Nazi aggression. They didnt start the war, they didnt choose to pick the fight. They had no choice.

      You do understand compulsory conscription don’t you?

  2. Giving an F about what we dont give an F about is the new SWJ way! Its the brave new world were the rock is being attacked for playing a guy with only 1 leg when he has 2.

    The German navy ships while under the Nazi banner clearly the navy did not feel this way because they flew the old flags and not the new ones.
    As far as this ship I don’t get why they did not put in the Bell Grano I but players choice I guess.

    • Speaking about what “we” don’t give a fuck about; who is “we”, your royal highness?

    • Small Weld Joint?

    • Jerry I expect that they didn’t add the Gen. Belgrano because it was a much better known “controversial” ship. I don’t know if there was a third, less controversial option out there. I think that the NdJ is a more controversial ship then the GBelgrano. The Belgrano itself is not really that controversial. It’s everything surrounding the Belgrano. And it’s the entire Falklands War, too.
      Honestly, if there was a third naming option out there for this class of ship, etc., I’d still be tempted to take it. (Actually, I guess that the ultimate fallback position for this ship could be just having it use its original USN name, though that would blow away this ship being the first Pan-South American ship.)

    • This is about civians! they were killed and tourced! outside a War! they did nothing! they.. if you dont dent it #dontgetit

    • PickelJars ForHillary

      People die everyday. boo hoo.

  3. I have to admit i havnt seen any controversy must be a eu server thing

  4. In fairness to WG, I think they included the ship because she had a good record as the Boise, and by the time she was the Torture Boat she’d been struck from service and was lying around gathering rust. Now if she’d been going out on patrols and dumping hogtied dissidents in shark-infested waters with open wounds, that would be another matter. And if you want to give the Belgrano a pass, bear in mind that at the time of her sinking, she was operated by the government that did all those things and started an ultimately fruitless war that got her crew killed to no good end. So are Belgrano’s hands really any cleaner? You could indeed find fault in anything.

  5. TheForgottonLegend

    No freaking way, I made it into a video with Zoup

  6. I totally agree with you. I always found it stupid how people nowadays in America or Europe takes offense on behalf of another person without knowing their actual opinions and feelings toward the matter.

    • mynameiswritinwater

      I think the Argentinians take on the junta and its crimes against Humanity and genocide is…. well pretty well documented ? Of course, actually looking for it is required try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War for starters and a few pointers.

    • So if people express their opinion, and you disagree with it, then they are stupid? I see.

    • People can have their opinion. It only becomes stupid when people start acting like someone offended them. Like with the chinese dress thing, when people who weren’t even chinese or knew about chinese culture started calling people racist just because they saw a non chinese girl in a chinese dress. Now that is stupid.

    • Maikalwolf what he said was that it was stupid for people to claim offence on behalf of others.

  7. Libertarian TROLL

    I am absolutely fascinated with history. The ugly and the not so ugly. I believe all the ships in this game are magnificent in their own special way. And I am so happy to see a game depict the ships in such great detail. I agree with your comments 100% brother. People need to just get a damn life. Like you said if you don’t like it, don’t buy it.

  8. It’s only game, why you heff to be mad?

  9. Yet another example of recreational outrage – people who don’t have enough real-world participation to have their plates full already.

  10. mynameiswritinwater

    Honestly : a ship that is a connotation for an infamous torture-facility (and yes, though being non latino European, I knew that ) to the present generation of Argentinians is probably the worst possible pick. Insensitive and sloppy on WG’s part. They could have named her “Phoenix”/General Belgrano or O’Higgins (the original class ship, the Brooklyn and her sister Prat ) for the pan-American branch or left her the “USS Boise” for the US navy branch. Whatever – just a different name tag and possibly some minor graphic’s change….. but why, obviously there are enough people out there who do not care about the means of oppression

  11. Fortunately WG are Russian and don’t give a fk about western PC and insta-offended tards.

    • crucisnh There is no law as far as I am aware banning the IJN naval ensign. It is, after all, *still in use*.

    • He means the “Rising Sun” version, not the current one. The one with the rays represented a regime that perpetrated the Rape of Nanjing, among other things. The current Japanese flag has no such connotations.

    • Lt. Voss is right. The Rising Sun flag IS the naval ensign

    • Heeeeeeerm The Rising Sun flag, with rays and all, is still the current naval ensign. It is also used in the patches for US troops stationed in Japan (or maybe just Yokosuka, if I’m not mistaken). The Rising Sun flag has been in use since the late 1800s, it is NOT just a representative of a regime’s actions during 1937-1945.

    • In certain countries they hold the raising sun flag as offensive, (not that I care) Especially China where WG gets a lot of its revenue from. Also why do you think we had a Pan-Asian flag? Cause China doesn’t recognize Taiwan as a separate country like the rest of the world, they think the Taiwanese flag is offensive too. but its an option in game now to switch flags which I like options instead of bans

  12. I’m not Argentinian, so I can not really say wether Nueve de Julio was a good idea or not. However, I do have a say in this: Why Nueve? There where many options WG could have chosen to open the pan American line that where more… unique. They could have picked Almirante Grau, the last all-gun cruiser in service around the world. They could have picked Belgrano, a ship Argentinians consider the martyr of the Falklands and would most likely end up selling more than Nueve, even if it is a hand-me-down, Hell, they could have picked one of their dreadnoughts.

    Honestly, as much as I would like a Pan-American line in-game, it’s reception seems to be worse than the Russians, which is saying a lot considering the strong anti-Russian sentiment the west has in the game. So Nueve might end up being useful only after several years down the road.

  13. World of Snowflakes

  14. Totally agree, at the first I was excited for the ship, then I realized “oh isn’t the Belgrano, is the 9…” and didn’t like too much due the history, but that lasted short time, cause is history, good or bad, is history you accept the facts that did happend, learn from they and keep going, and this is a game, this is a ship, not a person, is a tool, a cool tool, and she has no blame. It is the same stupid case of the swastica in games, do not negate the history, about that the worst part of the stupid censored is suffered by Finland, when his swastica has completely nothing to do with the one used by the Nazi. Greetings from Argentina, and you win a new suscriptor.

  15. I’m from argentina… i lived here my entire life. I hate the Junta, which was a fascist regime. I do know personal friends of mine which where born in other countrys like mexico and israel since their parents where forced to escape from the country. My wife’s uncle was kidnaped and tortured during 4 days by the military… he got back with a severe mental disorder, he pee his pants whenever he saw a cop. He sadly later commit suicide.
    This is nothing but the real facts. And this are all cases not included in the 30.000 disapeared/killed by the dictatorship.

    ARA 9 de Julio started his career in Argentina during the Peron 1st presidency. It had a short (kind of 20yr) career in the ARA, it was sent to port in order to provide spare parts for his twin brother the much more famous ARA Belgrano.
    When it become a clandestine detention center it was pretty much a skeleton ship.

    It would be stupid from myself to blame any ship aircraft tank or gun for the Dictatorship… these are only tools and they can be used for good or bad purposes. On the other hand LatinAmerica its kind of a forgotten area for triple A games. Our history it is very rich nevertheless whe are mainly forgoten. I love that wg made this special ship who served under Argentinean flag.
    And i do think that many folks out there act like if they hate to have a latinamerican ship around and that’s called ethnocentrism.
    The first critic where that it was US build… like if the Murmansk wherent in the game.
    Now the dirty war argument… what a bunch of hypocrits… keep sailing on your Tirpitz… which was almost his entire career sailing on occupied country’s waters… just to mention.
    I hope many other latin american ships get their chance to sail around in the game

    • Well said. I strongly feel the replies from the Argentines carry the most weight.

    • 8.000 disapeared/killed, not 30,000

    • I love that latin america is getting recognition and some ships in world of warships. My parents are from Cuba and I love that there is hope for a pan-american line. People will hate on everything. If they don’t like it they can close their wallets and leave the game, probably a potato anyway if your offended by a pixielated ship representation, will be glad to not see them in randoms. 🙂

    • Maikalwolf are you from USA, right? if you feel offended by my word “ethnocentrism” bad for you, i’m quite more offended by the fact that USA its building a wall in the south border.
      Its funny how you dare to make claims to me about the “dirty war” (which its not how we call the 1976/1983 regime… we refer it as the “civic/military genocide dictatorship” since the “pro dictatorship” people that are a small minority in my country but still exist, call it the “dirty war” (so in fact you are using the term genocides in our country feel comfortable with) because their excuse for genocide is that there was a war with “excess” on both “military and gerilla” sides, which is a lie since 90% of the killed/tortured/disapeared wheren’t in any armed movement.
      And yes, i have friends born abroad… family tortured and i know many people who also suffered dictatorship first handed, how many do you know? i go to the “Plaza de Mayo” every march 24th in order to prevent any genocide to ever happen again in my country. I want common prision for all the genocides, the opening of the secret list of the people kidnapped and killed and i move my ass whenever its needed in order to achieve these goals.
      But you, first world rich ass, who live in a country that directly supported every single latin american genocide regime from Pinochet to Somoza, you think you have more right than myself to be offended by anything on the Argentinean past. You better ask for the removal of the Entire USNavy since many many civilians where killed by the shells fired on bombardmnent runs, specially on their cruisers and carriers (that where ww2 era) on the Vietnam War.
      You pretend for me to be mad at a ship? which is basicaly steel shaped? i’m mad at the people holding the gun, not the gun itself. And for you to know, 9 de Julio it is not even near to be the largest concentration camp in our dictatorship “concentration camp” list. It was a temporary solution genocides find while they where building more efficient places to detain torture and kill their own people.
      Do you even know that 9 de Julio took active part bombarding the Mar del Plata military port during the 1955 “Revolución Libertadora” (which was a military coup that overtrown the democratical Peron government and was famous since naval aviation bombarded “Plaza de Mayo” which led to about 400 civilian deaths? If i had to be mad at that ship for something (which again, its stupid) i would be mad for his active part on that other black spot in our history.

      So, don’t lecture me with your morals (see why ethnocentrism?), do something against the bad stuffs your own government has done and keeps doing… specially here, since many of the shit landing in latin america goes thru the Pentagon toilet. I have a deep respect for the USA people which its not by near the same as his government, but man your comment its not the way you should support human rights across the world

    • Juan Miñones you are from Argentina but i will reply to you in english for everybody to know:
      There you have it, a pro dictatorship guy, a genocide supporter.

      8000 instead of 30000 its an argue genocide supporters make based on the “nunca Mas” repport (which was 12.000 documented cases) resting somehow 1/4 of the number saying there where “terrorist” that went abroad to France or Cuba and kept there.
      That’s a lie and they know it. “Nunca Mas” never had the dictatorship’s documentation (Junta kept record on every detain for intel purposes but they destroyed / hide those records when dictatorship was falling apart after the defeat in Malvinas) so the “Nunca Mas” comitee only had what they could to work with, which was mainly the testimony from the survivors brave enough to declare (remember 1 year after dictatorship was over, military still retained a lot of power and the chance of a new coup if the justice digged deep enough was serious) So in the end only a portion of the dictatorship’s victims made a statement.
      There are reccords that went public from the Dictatorship itself that count’s as far as 24000 clandestine detained in 1977, just one year after. the real number it is not known, but the estimate made by human rights movement (which include the Novell Prize award winner Adolfo Perez Esquivel) is around 30.000

      But furthermore, the “30.000” number it is not just a number, it is a question made from the civil society and human rights movement to the state… “if there are less than 30.000 victims, how do you know it? show the proof, show the secret documents, the remaining former represors should confess”. SO anyone willing to say “8000” victims, it is forced to show the facts to prove it or should remain in silence… since the same represors unwilling to confess are the ones that support that number, in order to take credit away from human rights movement in favor of the genocides from the past

  16. I am from Argentina. It just feels wrong so I will not buy it but I will not ask WoW to cancel it or will criticize other users for buying it.

    • Praise Kek, a libertarian on the issue. o7

    • You know, this ship was also used to shell the shit out of Mar del Plata city port and oil depot, in a sort of civil war called La Revolución Libertadora. So yes, in principle I am opposed but at the end of the day is just a bloody game.

  17. Thanks for this. I had no idea about this ships history. I agree with you completely. History is history and shouldn’t be glossed over. Well done as always

  18. Let history rest and enjoy the game. In my home country in Yugoslavia “things happened”; now i am friends with the former foes. You can choke on hate – or get over the past and live your life.

    I say live and let live. Remeber, but forgive. I am a cruiser-main, i might buy this ship.

  19. It is what it is. You can’t change the past, but you can learn from it. How can an object be held responsible for the actions of the people? Thing is, you’re going to encounter opinions like this on any subject anywhere in the world. It’s the way the world is unfortunately. I personally don’t have an issue with the ship being in the game, but then I’m not from Argentina. I’m Australian, and I have family who fought in both WWs, but yet the KM lines are my favourite and I enjoy playing IJN. Why? Because they’re fun to play, and I love the history that you can learn from. I have no doubt that if the Commonwealth DD line became a thing and Voyager headed the line at T10, we would see the exact same reaction due the Voyager/Melbourne collision in 1964. People will always find a reason to complain about something.

  20. PickelJars ForHillary

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemove all the things.

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