Well, Submarine battles are here, and I have some pros and cons. Still too early to make a decision on whether I like them or not. Could be a make or break moment for World of Warships.
Special thanks to @jonbloor7 for the new logo!
Carrier rework did not divide the community. It divided WG for his playerbase.
@Riker Keyes Players adept all the time but when you go from a class of ship that you can actually fight against, to something that now dominates… Before you got spotted by CV. Now also. No complaints there. Before your AA was effective against CV’s because you can deplain them, forcing YOU as the CV player to actually be careful. Now no matter how good your AA is, the CV can simply cycle to the next set ( dive, torps, … ), and just trow aircraft to away. I am a horrible CV player and the few times i play as a CV, i do not avoid Cruiser groups, go strait into flack because i know i take more damage trying to avoid them. And i know i can get at minimum one strike off even against a Cruiser group. A slightly isolated BB/Cruiser, say hello to at minimum 2 to 3 strikes. There is ZERO strategy involved anymore, just spam aircraft.
Remember how CV players needed to be careful about DD’s hunting them? Now a lot of CV’s have the firepower to massive hurt DD’s and even eliminate them. Armored flight decks, almost invulnerability to fires!!! DD even started to freaking avoid CV’s in most games because with rocket aircraft + radio location finder you are so easily spotted by a CV. Let alone trowing the fighter consumable above a DD. Even the most potato of CV players tends to live way, WAY too long.
Sorry but there is a difference to adapting and simply having a ship class that is beyond annoying. WoW used to be more about rock, paper, scissors type of gameplay but now its a jumbled mess.
Subs simply add another unbalanced type of ship to the game, that breaks even more ship meta’s. Remember how Japanese lines was stealth, lets be honest, in higher tier games there is almost no more stealth with counter DD;s, radar, sonar and aircraft. Now the gameplay has become more about HE spamming then anything else. BB’s have gotten more and more nerved while newer ships always seem to be extending the meta into more premium ships.
I have adapted for years but even i find the current meta to become even more of a grind. Wow events are getting worse and worse, designed to sell ships, sell ships, sell ships… Now we get a new meta and let me guess… Premium Subs that can shoot more torps with enhanced homing or whatever will be on the lineup. New ships (premium) that will be better at Sub hunting or have some magic unhistorical consumable to counter subs.
That is what is driving players away. The constant push towards gameplay to sell, sell, sell !
@Ben Jiro Im with you on the cvs– they probably need to be nerfed to a level that its not viable to play them, however, the subs are really easy to sink. THeres at least a counter play… They could be good with a few tweaks.
@Bohdisattva Nonsense you probably never played a CV so you don’t know its weaknesses. That is your fault, not the game mechanics.
@Bohdisattva Their is a counterplay, for dds and CLs. Apparently CAs and BBs can fuck themselves and this is not heathy for the game. The same way a CV can split a DD in two with only one hand, and can spot you for free in a lot of ships that desperately need stealth to be useful.
@D Gray No U (I stoped arguning with nonsense like that)
they are speed boats, undetectable, with no need to surface.
“Speed” being 13 knots. Brisk.
The misleading is real!
I don’t like that they take a slot or two from surface ships, maybe extending the numbers with 12+2 subs would be nicer… And no ASW for a lot of ships sucks.
Subs should also be perma spotted.
Zoup: “No doubt by now you have tried out submarines” me: sad because everyone else is trying submarines while all i am getting is coal 🙁
Yup I’m getting 4 straight days of coal :/
same –but its been way way more fun than I thought. completely changes up the gameplay
Coal in your stocking? Did you upset Santa?
I have played subs. Trust me, coal is better
When it comes to their speeds I think it’s good, submarines underwater speed should be around 1/4 in this game (7 knots for USS Cachalot) and at that speed they can operate well enough, they still can’t outrun destroyers and cruisers… My point is that I played a few games as subs and against them and their speed certainly isn’t that big of an issue. Other than that I’d agree.
I personally feel that subs should be included in the commerce raiding gamemode where their primary targets are not enemy warships but cargo ships. The premise is simple, 2 teams, one of of them subs go head to head with a convoy of DD’s in which one sinks more tonnage against the enemy team. Victory is determined by number of commerce ships sunk within a certain time limit and the defending teams get ASW and Hydro while the subs get Stealth and silent motors when going under 1/4 speed. It becomes a game of cat and mouse just like it has historically been. Carriers (specifically Langley and Ranger) can also join in but instead of bombs they get depth charges instead.
…And then the teams switch sides for a second round, each round is scored separately for XP and credits as normal. But both are combined for overall win and Stars determine rewards like signals and camo’s.
thats a really good idea more PVE would be great
Damn good idea. And no homing torps either since freighters and tankers are only doing about 15-17 knots anyway. Line up a shot and fire a spread. You might get some hits, you might not. This scenario would also be a good opportunity to introduce flying boats into the game for some ASW action. I’d love to see a Catalina circling over the water before dropping depth bombs into it.
I like that. Subs just didn’t sink that many warships during WWII, (with some notable exceptions). They were slow, so they had to concentrate on slow targets.
I’m sorry. This is world of warships. Good ideas are not allowed.
i like what WG did with this mode, if you play using other classes besides subs you’ll get more XP, if you go in as sub its normal XP and bots are used to fill in the MM. i think they should make it permanent. i sometimes go in as BB just to see how long i’ll last.
i used a BB (Izmail) to try the mode and i managed to annihilate everything…it seems most players there are not good. managed to dodge torps as well as eliminate subs which got too close to the surface… but im sure ill have no chance vs good subs as u r useless vs underwater targets
You make some good points, and submarines are not perfect, but they have made my brother want to redownload WoW to play subs, which is fine with me if that what it takes to bring more people back. My other issue is dealing with subs, not a big deal right now since most people have no idea how to play them, but it will be when they learn. I feel like all DDs and Cruisers should have depth charges, and carriers should have planes with depth charges, BBs should have some consumable or active sonar specific to subs so they can see them and ask for help from teammates, or avoid them, no more camping BBs. Another idea is to give the subs a toro activation range like carrier planes, so they can’t sneak up point blank range and nuke ships. Just what I’ve felt like I noticed. I’ve been able to destroy DDs and Cruisers coming to drop charges on me super easy.
Please tell them to make the icon a diamond for the subs, us old guys can’t see the line behind the triangle and they look like destroyers to us, thanks for all you do Zoup, your my favorite
True the icon could be more unique.
I think this is a good idea too
well I did have some experience in subs from the test server, but just today, I got the sub rentals, jumped into my first game with U-69, and proceeded to do a kraken without much effort. no DD bothered me during the entire game and it was just way too easy as flamu pointed out, counterplay against subs is a big big big problem right now. so, in this state, I wouldnt actually mind them being only available in games with bots as enemies (so coop and operations) until WG figures out how to make playing against them fun maybe have a consumable for BBs and CAs that calls in an airgroup to launch depth charges at subs to give them at least a chance of fighting subs that are underwater or prevent subs from staying underwater all the time there are many options, its a bit sad to see though that WG didnt implement one during the public test and this implementation
nonsense, you are blowing up bot boats. Totally different from players. And yes it is a players choice to decide to do something about the submarines. But it is also up to a cv to go after dds in regular games. Or radar ships to detect smoke puffers like Smolensk and minotaur. Or do you think leaving those alone is wise as well? Thing is people want to play average joe boat and get as much damage and past that on forums and youtube to thump their chests and claim they are good players. When in fact they were simply left alone by the other teams mediocre players. And it did not make you a good player at all. I do think something should be done about the submerge factor. If a sub has the caps and he is up against a non anti sub ship he can easily hide the rest of the game underwater while other ships cannot do this.
Nah I’m good. I mainly play Battleships, so stuff like this is pushing me away. The game was already pretty annoying with all of the HE/smoke spammers, but now I’ll have to dodge instaCitadel torps as well. Wish I could have all the money I spent back.
well best u can do is stop spending money on this game i guess. I stopped my subscription a while ago, even with a subscription the grind takes 4 ever, and i got so tired of it i am not grinding anything anymore.
You might not like them, but a lot of us would like to find a way to incorporate submarines into the game somehow. I’d be fine if it was a different mode, and I do think every ship should have some sort of way to fight subs. Push for that instead of just quitting the game before they’re even permanently implemented.
I still haven’t gotten them yet. I want them in something like convoy escort.
Definitely still a work in progress. Sub gameplay is too dull. The ping to lock mechanic just isn’t terribly interesting (on top of being pretty fussy at non-suicidal ranges). The guided torps are pretty underwhelming in novice hands but they have potential to be bonkers once some players get very good (and the blah gameplay means bad subs will replace suicidal DDs as the epitome of suck).
Their deck guns should be usable when surfaced (probably as secondaries/AA) since they are an actual thing (historically and on the game models). Counterplay ranges from fine (DDs and CLs) to non-existent (CA/BB/CV). Their ability to regenerate battery underwater is just flat out broken. If they have to surface to recharge batteries on a regular basis, their gameplay will start to resemble the historical “travel on the surface, dive to attack” behaviour of subs. I’d even be fine with improving their ability to corner a bit while on the surface (because they give the low tier dreadnaught era BBs a run for their money as unwieldy). If the subs have to surface more frequently, that gives the big boats a chance to take potshots at them during their air-breathing moments. A CV spotting and big guns firing HE should be a reasonable counter.
Depth charge bombing would also make sense but given their fragility and the fact that historically, it was mostly bigger planes like flying boats (e.g. PBY-5 Catalinas) and land-based bombers (e.g. B-24 Liberators) that did ASW duty. Carriers didn’t really carry proper ASW wings until after WW2. Maybe the bombers could be allowed to do some concussive depth charge-like damage (but toned down).
Most of us have tried subs… Well most of the people get subs on day 5-7 so yea. We havent
I just played ~20 games as mostly a dd. I found in the T-61, I was able wreck havoc on the subs. I had multiple 2 sub kill games. Once they are spotted nearby, they are doomed. I did have fun playing this mode.
I personally really enjoy them. And, I honestly feel if they’re put into PvP, they’ll force certain types of players to longer sit around in the back all day.
I agree Zoup. Restrict subs to Operations. Also, give BBs and CAs some kind of counter. Or at the very least give CVs’ aircraft depth charges (which was a very effective ASW method in the Battle of the Atlantic).
we need new types of game play that we can ALL play with all classes of ships, not more broken ships.
They need working deck guns for close range engagments and AA, they really suffer without them.
I love submarines, I’ve played literally every Silent Hunter game beginning from 1 BUT In WoWs they suck, they are either boring or really OP, nothing in between and they ruin the game meta especially for BB’s who have already been rendered useless.
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