WG should have just stuck with: “There will be no subs in World of Warships”
WG: ” Lord Spreadsheet knows it all, He is our SAVIOR!”
It’s more like Lord Spreadcheeks.
Spreadsheet says 15% of the playerbase has to play CV so keep buffing CV until that number is met!
@Icicles_ i mean i hate cvs as much as the next guy but…. didn’t they just throw a big nerf at them 2 patches ago? Cut em some slack with the whole ‘they keep buffing cvs argument’
WG: “Do not question The Spreadsheet, comrade. You go straight to Gulag if you do!”
According to The Spreadsheet, subs are fun and engaging. Secondaries are not for hitting destroyers or subs. Battleships are snipers and shouldn’t push. The Spreadsheet can’t seem to balance anything properly, tbh. Everything is just BAD, that’s the “balance” it applies. Just make everything equally crappy to play I guess. It leads to boring, bland gameplay though in general.
Did you just assume the spreadsheets gender?! 😱
Yep, my sentiments exactly. They should bury this stinky fish of an idea of theirs and never bring it back.
This on the backs of _Crew Skills 2.0_ in tanks is a good 1-2 punch to kill off their playerbases entirely.
I’m sure WG will balance this out and make the game enjoyable for all….. LOL
Why not? It could be perfectly fine and fun to have subs for special events and seasonal game modes. I would’ve played convoy attack/protection PvE missions for couple of times. Sticking it to PvP is the error. But if it lacks depth (subs lack depth, do you get it? ha-ha) game could use a bit of growth in width.
@iChaseGaming LHM said during the the resolution of the Yukon fiasco, subOctavian spent more time talking up the CV rework and subs. What’s the similar about these two ship clasess? A newb can play them without being hit in return unitl the very end and in the case of CV’s auto repair for 60 seconds. They’re designed for noobs to play w/o dying in the first 5 minutes.
@Joselito Sto Tomas They are not designed for noobs, they are designed for the vast majority of WoWs players, which are “drumm roll” 45-48% ish players. Not uniclowns and super unicunts and the consensus is exactly that, the player elite doesn´t like them because “too easy” but so far i haven´t heared a single joe average player truly complain about that at all.
Un realistic stats for unrealistic battles. There is a point where things brakes as hard as you try to arcade it.
Like smart bombs homing torpedoes ARE designed to make maneuvers like this… wait for skill levels to come up with off angle shots, with follow pings… Counters to subs should be Anti-sub tactics. Anti-sub rockets, mines, spotting choppers or “acoustic” homing torpedoes!
so dds get even more workload while bbs wont even dare to leave the spawn area
@Ilena Starbreeze the Germans have buffed secondaries, and HE shells murder subs, so yeah. They aren’t completely defenseless. On the other hand, if a Sub surfaces. Well ig they do have hydro so whatever I suppose
@ANUBHAV SHARMA True, but the accuracy against subs and by extension DDs are still an issue, especially thanks to the new ISBA ramp-up mechanic( which, while not good against DDs/subs per se, IS still a positive change overall). You don’t have that dispersion buff right away, it will take time to ramp up, and in that time, the subs/DDs will either get away or torp you to death. Oh, and subs can just dive anyways, making your secondaries useless.
@Sailor Moon its fragmentation dmg, so even the misses count as hits. But yeah once they dive, no chance.
@Matthew Douglas sigh another snowflake quickly to judge others for who they are just be having a different oppinion
@Christian Krakhofer My apologies, i myself can be just as bad, forgive me I hope you see my point though
Well, I’m not surprised. I kinda expected something like this would happen, because the subs in WoWs would have an identity crisis.
The basic concealment mechanic and the smoke consumable pretty turned DD’s into pseudo-submarines, since… forever, lol. The whole niche/role of stealthy hunter/stalker/assassin should have been that of subs… but the DD’s got it. So the subs are now some kind of an awkward “homing torp” specialists, with wonky pings and “Get-out-of-jail-free-card” dives, which look soooo dull to play. It’s such a gimmicky and narrow niche that doesn’t seem to serve much purpose, in my eyes.
This is exactly the issue, since WG titles are based around concealment as the primary mechanic. If everyone is concealed, then no one is. Sadly this mechanic is something that I don’t think they will ever abandon.
Homing Asashio 20k meme torps for CV hunting; pattern running torps to get around islands. hehe
Yeah, I can literally recall arguing with people back when I started in 2016 that
“They said they’re not adding subs, and they don’t need to; sneaky torpedo destroyers already fill that niche perfectly well”
And here we are now and I still think that’s true.
Exactly my words. Or, forget me, even devs’ themselves said so, when they explained why shima is fine (yet, they buffed it couple of times since then). There players who wanna stealth torp build, there DDs to let ’em have it. Subs? Because… planes… ruin… concealment… for… surface… ships… I… guess. Screw it! It’s not like I’m still playing, just following design as part of my own work. But sometimes, it looks like it leads me to a deadend.
@ELH Imp that word, design, I don’t think it means what you think it means. 😉
Everytime a torpedo has a bug i’m just going to say ”There goes the MK14 again”
I’m sure that most of the typical WOWs players don’t have even a minimal historical background knowledge… 😉
Heh Mk 14 Torpedo memes wasn’t funny historically for the actual sailors who had to use them early to mid war but funny for us since we now know how bad that torpedo was before all it’s issues had finally been sorted…
@MitchieOG Yup two test fires, one success. Perfectly good torpedo!
@CatLover JerryGarcia two unloaded tests wasn’t it?
So just “yeah this tube moves”
I just don’t feel like there’s a place for such a specialist class in a 12v12 game. Trying to balance them will just end up making everything shit
Yeah, that’s my feeling right now, 12 v 12…the subs just feels super awkward
You think Wargaming would have learned their lesson from CVs and artillery (in WOT) about introducing a class that has completely different mechanics from the others in the game. It is almost impossible to balance.
The game is already shit we don’t need more shit to add to the original pile of shit
You it’s gonna be bad when ichase leads with “yeaaahh”
I got busy and didn’t have time to play around late April. After my schedule loosened up, I still didn’t log back on. Still haven’t. Only watched some videos on YT here and there.
They should just scrap the whole ping, homing and citadel mechanics for sub torpedoes, and instead give subs torpedo armament on par with same-tier torpedo-focused destroyers. Then there would be actual tactical gameplay with how to position yourself for a torp strike and where and when to launch them. Subs would still differ from such destroyers in being even stealthier, but slower and easier to catch for someone who does manage to figure out where they are.
^^ this. They should’ve done this.
@David Carpenter I concur, all good sub movies usually have a scene with setting the bearing and speed of the torpedo or torpedoes in a spread and then praying for a hit and to not get detected by an escort.
I think the best implementation of subs was the old Halloween event. No gimmick, just a plain targeting reticle. No bullshit like homing torps, sound travelling with different speed for each nation, and so on. Probably i gonna put this game down for a while after these come out, my spending here is already dropped like 90%. Just a some premium sometimes.
Looks to me like a company whereby the men with the money are ruling with an iron fist, but they have no idea what their product is. WOW and WOT are both suffering for excessive greed driving excessive stupidity…
Welcome to the state of Russian online games.
someone clearly sent some Mk48 ADCAPs back into the past, that homing is ridiculous
It has to be an error. I thought they tuned them down.
I really tried to give subs a chance testing them on the PTS but they are just awful, boring to play and even more boring to play against. This whole project is an exercise in failure. Although if you love camping long range HE matches then subs are your best friend.
Only good thing with subs is the klaxon for the horn.
A very casual WoWs player here, the kind of guy with an account as old as the Beta but with only a few hundred games mainly playing cruisers. However I played quite a few submarine sim.
Just wanted to say that they couldn’t have done this class worse they just missed every single element that could have made the class interesting here is why:
-Homing torpedoes: one of the main points of sub games is too find a firing solution for your torps. We could have hoped for the same here after all every class has to manually aim his main weapons in WoWs but not the sub… They even could have given a twist to it with the ability to launch torps with curved trajectories. And of course being only able to shoot at pericope depth against surface ship so there is a slight chance to hit him with canons if detected. I guess they could keep some kind of homming for underwater sub vs sub to not make it ridiculously hard.
-Underwater vision of the sub: since the sub is hard to detect they could have actually made the ability of the sub to detect surface ships from underwater different. First no shared detection with allies and second he can only “see” unidentified ships (read he doesn’t know the ship class) if not at periscope depth, but since it’s given by an hydrophone he can see any ship in the area where the player is pointing his camera. Periscope depht could be a mix of both.
-Diving and surfacing: Both actions could be a bit longer so the player will have to anticipate a bit. USA’s subs gimmick which basically sounds like crash diving could be a diving option given to everyone. The drawback of crashdiving would be that you can’t set up yourself at periscope depth (you’ll be sent deeper instead) so you wont be able to counter attack immediatly.
-Gimmicks: Most gimmicks sounds uninspired and boring which is sad since we got exemples a sub gears and weapons who could have been used as gimmicks for the game. Heres the most telling exemple. German subs could be able to launch a few FaT torpedoes. A FaT (Flächen-Absuch-Torpedo) is basically a torp that automatically starts making U turns. In WoWs it means a torp that you may have to dodge multiple times or if the sub player is a bit creative hitting enemies camping behind an island with the U turn.
We all knew the submarine would be hard to implement which is why they said originnaly that they didn’t want to make them. But if you’ve read what I wrote above you may realise even more how they screw it up to the next level, these are not WW2 submarines, these things are (underwater-)spaceships XD.
As mightyjingles said in his latest episode. It’s all about pushing the content they think we want rather than asking what we actually want while removing the thing we enjoy and using weak excuses to justify it. Like how they killed operations mode or nerfed the secondary brawling ships.
This sounds about right, actually. Especially regarding the secondaries. No one asked for their accuracy to be so thoroughly nerfed via ISBA. At least now WG is trying to fix that, but it’s clear that secondaries targeting priorities have changed. It’s very clear that WG doesn’t want secondaries hitting subs (and by extension, DDs) due to how the accuracy is now applied in the new ISBA skill (ramp-up mechanic).
Ruining the things we like to push us toward the things they think we think we really want. Fixed it.
“I know, let’s take the game, which is already slow, and make it EVEN slower and more passive!” – WG, trying to replicate Warplanes
Honestly the game would of been a lot better as just a surface warships game without carriers. They made a game focusing on surface gun carrying ships and then added the single class of ship (carrier) that literally made the gun ships obsolete and try to balance it out. The game has had identity issues every since it was first released.
If you spend so many ressources to make a new class and still get it wrong after so many years, maybe this class just doesn’t belong in the game in the first place…
Honestly they should just make them more arcade focused, better maneuverability and torp homming, very low torp Alpha + very low flood chance, short torp reload. Otherwise it’s just way to simplistic/tactical and doesn’t fit the game….
Felt exactly the same when I tried this on PTS. It was just boring and a waste of time. No fun at all. Doesn’t fit the gameplay at all. That’s kind of sad because designers did a nice job with the models and the underwater surface.
WG’s core business: throwing things off balance and have the PR department manage the outrage. If WG were restaurant, Gordon Ramsay couldn’t help them.
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