World of Warships – SUBMARINES!! :O – Some Initial Concerns

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So submarines are coming in the next Halloween event, typically this indicates that they are now moving to human play testing and potential future release of this new class of ship. I’ve got some serious initial concerns as well which hopefully will be addressed by the time the ships do make it into PVP.

89 Comments:

  1. Yes yes yes yes yes!! *Das Boot theme started playing in the background*

    • Get used to the idea… like the changes on carriers…. I’m pretty sure it’s going to be added…..oxygen (timer for being under water), torpedos, and depth charges will be counter…i’m guessing it’s going to be very popular as well… (number of players wanting it)..……

    • Nope, I have dozens of warship friends that already left and took their money elsewhere. I will probably be doing the same if this is added permanently. People will guess it’s going to be “very popular” and that the game is fine…until it’s too late and the game starts going the way world of warplanes went.

    • Whelp. I guess you better get packing. Less toxicity in this game will only be an improvement. Adios

    • Lol you call that toxicity? That was just a dose of reality. If you want to fumble along thinking people aren’t leaving you are free to keep believing in that delusion. It doesn’t make it any less untrue nor any more “toxic”. It is what it is and adding subs is asking for another Graf Zepplin disaster.

    • Blackstarr223 Alle Mann voraus! SCHNELLER! SCHNELLER!

  2. they will have to redo all maps to make subs work, because the ‘water’ is only a ship-height deep on most. 1.0.0-style map revamp?

    • Most subs are pretty small compared to the ships in game, they just won’t be able to go AS CLOSE to islands. Subs will still be able to use most major passages, I don’t think it will be a problem.

    • ^^This.
      Especially since all Maps has nothing below the Waterline.
      https://imgur.com/a/vHTSJEu (Image from below the Waterline using a Camera Exploit)

    • StArShIpEnTeRpRiSe  It would be cool to see the sunken ships while underwater, too.

    • My Arizona once sunk into sand right next to an island so judging the depth of water using the sinking animation does not work.

    • If you use the big wave mod (old feature that was removed due to graphic issues) you will notice many of the waves swell impact the ‘ground’ and create a weird visual effect where there is no water in a small swell. The bottom of a lot of the map are just shaded texture that give the appearance of depth. Or they are un-modeled void

  3. I thought they said they never were going to do this. I hope this stays a halloween event only ship and they’re not seriously considering implementation into the actual game. There are so many other things that need fixing and proper balancing before the consideration of a new class.

    • I hope they do add it to the game, the game could always use more content I have a feeling the only people complaining about this are B.B. mains, I can’t wait to hunt these things down and the depth charges on cruisers and DDs will finally have a purpose

    • +Hubble Fluff only light cruisers. Heavy cruisers didnt tend to have depth charges. Perhaps a passive and/or active sonar consumable on CLs and DDs. Maybe also make SSs move slow underwater and make some ASW catapult planes?

    • Well they do already move slow underwater, but I’d def agree to the ASW cat planes! Maybe give battleship spotters a purpose other than extending gun range!

    • Oh they are from what it was said towards the end the plan is 2018 CV rework and submarines 2019.

    • More bullshit lies

  4. April fool’s for next year: Jaws themed map with shark subs!

    Make it happen wargaming!

  5. Ancient Yuletide Carol

    Wargaming: “Rest assured we will NEVER implement submarines into this game.”
    Also Wargaming: “Why are my pants on fire?”

    • James Bigglesworth “Hey Ukraine 🇺🇦, give us all your nukes and we promise never to invade your country or touch your land, good deal yes?” Many years later…….. “Crimea belong to us now Ukraine 🇺🇦 “

    • You do know that a puppet western government formed a coup against the duly elected government of Ukraine?

    • Quite frankly, destroyers as they are in WoWs right now function pretty much like subs did back in WW2, so i do wonder why people would ask that. That said, this could be interesting.

    • Fantasy game they can do whatever. WW2 submarines average submerged speed was 8 knots, except 1 Japanese sub. Most attacks where conducted on the surface with guns. Nearly every encounter with a warship resulted in the sub being sunk. The subs only recourse was to run away. Aircraft maritime patrols ended many a sub. So as WGing has demonstrated in the past. Unless they intend to create an entire paper navy. I can’t see these making it into the regular game. If thats the case i guess we will see Russian subs never having to surface doing 46knots and firing 16 torpedo salvos in all directions.

    • James Bigglesworth doesn’t matter what government is in power or was in power, or put in power, they signed a treaty over 20 years ago giving up their nukes for the promise that Russia along with the west, that they will respect Ukraine sovereignty. It’s called the Budapest Memorandum, look it up and educate yourself.

  6. In WoWS time and space are proportionally scaled down, including always, never and forever.

    Also note; the WoWS rep formerly known as Sub_Octavian is now Ship_Octavian. (a silent protest from within the machine?)

  7. PS this will likely mean more ships will need to be equipped to carry additional consumables (e.g. hydro, depth charges, etc) which leads to more profits for WG.

  8. they might limit the amount of subs to 2 per game like carriers. and only one sub a division. that could work

  9. Can’t wait to play with subs.

  10. What if they make aircraft another counter to submarines? They might be able to make a consumable that would be like calling in an ASW plane. That way it won’t fall all on the shoulders of destroyers. Might also help make carriers more useful if fighters/bombers can be used to spot subs from overhead.

    • DD’s and Cruisers did also counter subs in ww2, they used sonar and depth charges,

    • Entropiated smartest thing i have heard so far the things most u boats fear in ww2 was being caught on the surface and coming under air attack

    • Agreed. Though I’d say that you don’t need to make it a consumable. Have it as a captain skill for carriers where TBs can attack a submarine with depth charges. That’s historical for a lot of Torpedo Bombers.

      Also, if WG is going to give fighters rockets for attacking surface ships (and finally having a purpose besides being spotter squadrons), then a player can orbit over a spotted sub until he has to surface, and come in and rocket his world (pun intended).

      As for subs, I’d say that surfaced they have a spotting range for surface and air. Periscope depth….”attack depth” against ships, they have an air spotting range (historical, that’s what the Civil Air Patrol did IRL on the East Coast of the US in WW2). The only way a sub can evade aircraft is to dive, but in doing so it can’t attack and it loses sight of basically everything not detected by its own hydro.

    • Along those lines, when your torp bombers come back to refuel and rearm, you can choose the loadout so that you have to choose torps or anti-sub.

    • That is a good idea, but in that case I would like it to be maybe 20 skill points on the commanders

  11. Anti camping device.

  12. *Few good solutions – EDIT: Ichase, could you pin this if any at all possible, many thanks!*
    What will counter subs besides DDs? – Plunging BB caliber shells, deep water torpedoes, DC armed carrier planes, DC armed spotter planes, and ramming should severely damage subs at periscope depth

    What will destroyers use? – Destroyers can come equipped with two DC types – canister dropped and hedgehogs. NOTE: Many light cruisers (and some heavies) were generously equipped with ASWs

    What can subs use to defend themselves against DDs? – Longer range sonar and passive view range when completely submerged + Crash dive ability makes you immune to attack but slowly damages the sub and decreases situational awareness

    What will be the advantage of a sub? – The ability to select standard torpedoes AND deep water ones (slightly better than their DD counterparts), best in class sonar, superior stealth, psychological factor

    What will be the disadvantage of a sub versus a DD? – Lower torp salvo with restricted launch radius, reduced camouflage against enemy spotter planes, less agile, little to no guns and AA + the dreaded need to surface every once and a while

    *Unique features:*

    > Buff catapult aircraft with DC + captain skill that enables manual control

    > Heavier shells (roughly 304mm+) can penetrate 5-10 meters of water

    > Subs cannot fire or capture points below a certain depth but their sonar range and camo rating gets much stronger if they go deeper and reduce speed aka, “silent run”.

    > Subs immediately surface if battery power is lost – making it involuntary suicide if the captain doesn’t manage things properly. They can however slow down the degradation of the timer slightly by getting close to the surface and allow the sub to raise a snorkel – which it ought to do automatically without any input from the player.

    > Subs may have access to a single repair ability called “Emergency Repairs”. It can only be used once and it only repairs damage caused by enemy weapons, not hull fatigue incurred by crash dives

    > In response to the incoming torpedo soup that’s bound to occur with the release of a submarine lineup, BB captains get the choice of an “All Hands on Deck!” ability that briefly lowers chances of flood & fire and buffs the secondaries

    > Subs will have four?, very straight forward dive settings:

    1.) Surface: Obvious as it gets. You can cap and sail at full speed, your camo is lower than that of a comparable destroyer and you’re an infuriatingly small target to hit.. but you *will* die to a single cruiser salvo.. and you’re slow af by surface ship standards

    2.) Periscope depth: Allows you to cap points at half the normal speed and launch torps while still being relatively safe and stealthy as long as there’s no sonar or spotter planes nearby. You’re detectable up to about 3-4km, because eventually your periscope becomes clearly visible to a guy wielding a set of binoculars. Spotter planes on the other hand will see you from an ample 6-7km away.

    3.) Submerged Depth: You’re defenseless now and incapable of capturing anything but your detection range is now down to 1-2km. Also your sonar gets a buff down there. Unfortunately you’re still vulnerable to DC and lit up like NYC Times Square to anybody using sonar.

    ?.) Crush Depth: Still not sure if this ought to be an ability with a cooldown timer or not. Down there you’re invisible and unassailable to everything including DC and sonar but unfortunately you will take hull damage. This will allow you to reposition and remain unpredictable after being spotted and aggressively hunted down. The added flipside is that you’re completely blind and no longer receiving viable information from your minimap.. you can’t see them, they can’t see you.. so plan accordingly.

    • @Josh Friedman so when are you going to join WG in the Good Ideas dept ?????
      only being able to cap when on the surface is brill idea as is the ” All Hands On Deck” idea for the poor BBabies ..
      and the poor dd’s who only fire Deep Water Torps will have an other target when fully dived ..
      it is very interesting and if they get it right it could be a good thing .. lets keep an open mind and see what the Halloween event brings .
      Fare Seas Captains .

    • once they stop radar going through islands they can start on something new

    • I don’t think submarine should be spotted at all underwater unless the enemy uses hydrocustic

    • lol those Subs are not Nuclear Submarine they will not stay underwater forever HE shells, Depth Charge canisters or torpedo can finish them off maybe they got 30 sec to live while underwater and 1 minute oxygen and battery charge they must go to the surface to do it.. if they lost those life source the sub will be dead underwater or they will force to surface and face those guns.. 1 DD is enough to kill a Sub thats why sub and cruisers must work together.

    • Also make periscopes important to get visuals and know the speed of the ships to get a good firing arc of their torps. And usually deeper than the periscope depth they can’t fire because they don’t know the speed and direction they’re heading but they know the distance their location. But here is my curious question, I played naval frontline on android and I played as a submarine and a battleship shell from the enemy hit my periscope and got seriously damaged and sunk into the depths, will that be on wows?

  13. The other counter to subs is Oxygen. Sub will be surfacing closer than they would like to. Also I would not be suprised if various Cruisers can also counter.

  14. What about anti-anti sub combat, submarine vs submarine, for example:

    It was nearing the end of a battle, and the only ships both teams have are subs, how is that going to work?

    • WW2 “subs” were primarily surface ships, they would just go under for a few hours to avoid detection or slip past defenses. Early in the war, German U-boats would run up to allied transports and use them as target practice for their 88mm deck guns (some had 2, 1 fore and 1 aft of the sail). For aa defense, they often had 1 small gun used when they either could not dive, or needed to hold the attacking aircraft off while the started the diving process, something that wasnt simple.

    • The subs were running on surface early in the war because of treaties and conventions. They were required to give the crew of the merchant ship warning and possibility to evacuate their ship before it was sunk. When everybody declared war on Germany and they used Q-ships a few times to kill U-boats, the Kriegsmarine issued a general order to stop the warnings and just sink ships.

    • if this happens both submarines are visible all time

    • Lubos Soltes they spent the majority of their patrols on the surface because they could move quicker with their diesel engines, not a treaty. this also allowed them to recharge their batteries for when they needed to go under. they could also vent any CO2 produced by the crew and machinery. unlike more modern diesel subs that have efficient snorkels for the engines and good O2 recycling. yes early in the war they gave undefended shipping plenty of warning to evacuate, but this was more a fact that deck gun ammo was cheap, torpedoes were not. the general order was more about limiting losses.

    • Trinal Galaxy: Please read up on early WW2 U-boat operations, you need it. Of course they were faster on the surface and all the other things you stated, but definitely did NOT attack from the surface and with deck guns after certain incidents. Convoys were engaged from periscope depth or lower and they stayed underwater for hours if needed. Snorkels were introduced at the end of WW2 in the German U-boat fleet btw …

  15. this would finally give DD’s a real life roll that they did in WW2. DD’s have taken cruisers roll and have become overpowered. Make dd’s hunt subs like they were made for.

    • I can’t agree with you more currently DD are the subs with there stealth. This might even get Bb to be less passive to fill up the space for busy dd that can’t cap and cruiser to stop hiding. I think it will solve more problems then it will make

    • DDs are overpowered OMEGALUL
      Made my day haha

    • DDs are being stomped all over by the sheer amount of radar ships. OP? :ultrahypermegalul:

    • +rich livingston the DD’s roll was everything.  First to kill coastal torpedo boats, then to be a fleets torpedo boat against capital ships, then counter other fleets destroyers, then be anti submarine fleet escort, then be anti aircraft fleet escort.   Submarines where for attacking merchant shipping with the occasional ambush protecting coastal areas against enemy ships they where the weakest warship which is why in WW2 sloops, frigates, corvettes and destroyer escorts (different to normal destroyers) where built for hunting subs as it was a waste to use destroyers for the job as they where overkill.

    • @rich livingston You’re thinking of “Destroyer Escorts” a smaller type of ship. The dds in the game are “Fleet Destroyers” which performed a myriad of purposes including surface attack operations.

  16. Destroyers were always seen as the workhorses of the fleet.

  17. Today, I fell victim to a sudden torpedo spread that came out of nowhere. As far as I am concerned, adding subs won’t change the game much.

  18. Aircraft carriers can also counter subs as well. But submarines will really hurt those BBs and cruisers that camp in the rear to snipe. If you don’t move up to support DDs, submarines will kill you.

    • Remember, there will certainly be a submarine on both sides. So that light cruiser spamming HE from behind an island will be vulnerable to the submarine on YOUR team too.

    • With CV changes, they can’t have multiple squadron on at the same time anymore.

    • +tekteam26 unless these subs will be too slow to even get near the spawn line BB. Also, as a Sub I’d rather stick to an area with lots of covers and where enemy ships are coming rather then sail all around the map.
      About BB not supporting DD: how may times the DD rush forward leaving slow BB behind, where their big slow guns are unable to cope with fast moving and nimble ships dogfighting? Be assured this will make BB players even less willing to join the close quarter fighting because torps is not something BB like a lot…

    • Or more likely the BB players will camp at the back more and not advance into an area until the DDs have cleared it out for them

    • Actually that’s not what’s gonna happen.
      Most likely everyone will play even more passively, because if you push anywere there is the additional danger of beeing stealth-torped by a submarine.
      Just as when they introduced the Asashio, everyone was like: “This si great, this will punish camping bbs!” not realizing, that ships like that and mechanics like that (stealth torps, that can’t be countered) are not the counter but THE REASON for bbs to camp.
      As a fairly experienced (unicum) bb-main player I assure you, that that’s what’s gonna happen.
      I myself would’t drive my Yamato into an area where I can get stealth-torped at any time from any direction, at a range that makes it impossible to dodge…

  19. I have two comments. Firstly, and unfortunately wows is already getting close to that point where they can’t implement any new ships without unabashedly making things up. Submarines gives them a whole new line to explore.

    Second, I feel that there is a way to fit them into the game that would make it fun and challenging. If the devs do it right they could be great.

    However there is a lot to go wrong and they have quite the challenge figuring out a way to make it fair for all sides. I dare say though that given what we see, I don’t think they will be the overpowered monsters everyone imagines, in fact I dare say that submarines will be very challenging to play. Low health pools, slow speeds while submerged, and the limited submerged time means that one screw up and its back to port for a sub captain. Also as you get higher up in tiers ranged torpedo attacks will be harder to pull off as Japanese and panasian torp destroyers know.

  20. Its a no for me. If only dd’s can counter them. Like never trust your team if you want something done do it yourself… I dont like the aspect of trusting dd’s to deal with them

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