I hate that they were added to WoWS. Subs have crappy mechanics and homing torps are BS. Yes, I am raging, and I don’t care.
I hate that they were added to WoWS. Subs have crappy mechanics and homing torps are BS. Yes, I am raging, and I don’t care.
They are the reason I uninstalled after years of playing.
On top of that, the ping marker you can see so you can asw, also can by off by hundreds of meters.
And they disappear too fast!
You can’t target them when underwater. You can’t Hydro them (which you should), their “indicator” of where it’s at is BS. Why isn’t there any “indicator” for our AWS planes. We have it for guns, we have it for lead time on torps, why isn’t there the same for AWS? They have to much fucking health for a Sub, they are damn sure too fast for a sub… overall, they are the most BS class in the game and should NEVER have been added as they are.
I agree with that they are too fast but tanky is not a thing anymore after the last nerf, once you hit a sub without dc even its pretty much a free kill when you can aim at the oil puddles since they die super fast now except the giant japanese one.
You CAN hydro them, but its only 2kms range, or use a Subs “Sub Surveillance” which has 2 to 3 times the range of Hydroacustic Search. Say what you will about HP and Speed, but do you REALLY want to sailing around at less then 20 knots and LESS THEN 10 knots underwater? No seriously DO YOU? The obvious answer is no.
They WAY too tanky for SHELL hits i will say that much, the Damage Saturation is INSANE. You are literally better off hitting them with the Blast damage from Depth Charges, then shooting them with Gun shells.
@Jay Werner Well since I don’t play them I don’t care about their speed, but let’s at least be a bit realistic here. That was what made them what they were, slow and stealthy. Subs never should have been put in the game as is, and should have been left to some special campaign or something. As for DC’s, they were nerfed when you go from 4 DC’s per plane to 1. Come on, that’s not realistic either. HP, really so last time I looked, some of those subs have more HP then a tier 10 DD. That’s total BS as well. Homing torps as Zoup said, never existed in this time frame.
@Dan Girard Actully, Acoustic homing did exist (they could track the wake of a ship), but holy shit THEY WERE NOT THIS GOOD!
The torps in game are like aim9 sidewinders rather then Torpedos.
I loved the game but when it got to the point I was running out of repair parties (with super intendent and kuznetsov) on my BBS before I got even in 12km of anyone I just stopped. It’s infuriating and what makes it worse is that the only people who feel genuinely immune to submarines are other submarines and carriers. The 2 classes that shit on everyone else with no counterplay cannot screw each other over. And this is coming from a carrier player, I used to main only CVs but after I while I felt so disgusted about it that I switched. Yeah, kicking someone on the ground who can’t defend themselves is victory, doesn’t change anything about the fact I’m kicking someone who can’t fight back
Ironic considering CV’s and airplanes were the number 1 nemesis for submarines. Planes could easily spot submarines and destroy them. But for some reason WG forbade CV’s from countering submarines, or even other carriers with the ridiculous 600 second fighter consumables, with only 40 second cooldown.
Even as a cv player I feel conscious of subs. Thats cause there was this sub player who was decent and I was trying to spot him to get everyone else to shoot him, but he dove to the bottom. There was nothing I could do. Now whenever I hear torps, I first assume it’s a sub, before I realize that it’s a destroyer usually.
@Meganoob BG You can spot subs with your planes and theirs nothing they can do about it except dive beneath the waves. Subs have No AA. Also the Auto ASW is BULLSHIT, drops right on top of you every time.
100% agree. I stopped playing shortly after they put subs in the game. I miss the game before cv’s. I loved it. For me, the game is ruined and I don’t miss the frustration from subs. Respects
then the game should be named World of Battleships, since if you cut out every class that is annoying, youd be only having a rowboat with an anchor, CV hated , DD hated, Subs hated…
@Jock Lindholm no, it would still be called world of warships without CVs or subs. You tried though
There is always Legends. No subs, cv’s are less annoying and less common at high tier. Most of our destroyer’s concealment is pretty broken though so it’s not perfect and there are a few broken premium ships and still plenty of stupid WG BS but it sounds like it’s not AS bad.
@177SCmaro interesting. I’ll take a look and thank you.
@Tim Hartson yw
The funny thing is that WG was so against stealth firing back in the day, but then they do crap like this.
They HAVE YET to buff the USN DDs for the removal of stealth fire. I called it all the way back then that there would be no buff in store to compensate for the bad arcs. I even gave several possibilities for buffs that wouldn’t be overpowered.
1. Give the USN 5″/38 armed ships much tighter dispersion to compensate for their bad arcs.
2. The “HE Shell” that USN 5″/38 DDs have is actually an AP shell. Either increase the pen or swap it for an actual HE shell and up the fire chance.
3. Make the gun bloom time a stat tied to the individual ship.
@Crosshair84 Yeah, I mained a Blyska back then and I really enjoyed it. The thing was, for DDs at least, you were looking at shell flight times in the 13 – 14 second range with arcs that went to the moon. So it wasn’t easy to land those shots even if the dispersion was behaving. But no, WG thought it was too evil and ditched it, like you said without even trying to re-balance after the fact. That was one of the first major times that WG made it obvious that they didn’t care. Not going back and adjusting old ships is just another way WG gives players the middle finger.
WG: Our submarine suck? Don’t worry we’re swarming our game with hybrid ships.
Totally agree. Once you are in ping range and the pings start hitting you every few seconds your mind and your calmness is gone. The engagement itself destroys your concentration and ability to deal with surface targets. The sub MULTIPLIES the danger posed by other enemies and diminishes your ability to deal with any of the threats. Subs squeeze your time and wreck the game for sure.
Skill issues get good
I agree 100% I have had a hard time actually wanting to play the game since submarines
I feel ya Zoup, thanks for your sacrifice.
Subs ping a couple of times per min, BB’s get one ASW shot (mostly), it’s like cat herding. just leading us around like mad catters. better sub players = fewer BB players. that’s not gonna change anytime soon. Apologies for that.
Those lovely markers on the surface only indicate their “general” whereabouts, if you drop on the marker, you will always miss. it’s like shoot leading and invisible boat. minimap is useless in predicting subs course. The best sub-mariners (if you’ll pardon to copyr), target the biggest HP pools, and “bob’s your uncle”. Tag, you’re it.
IMHO: There is very little chance for BB’s to survive a sub chasing them. Unless they are a bad sub-mariner, or (like me) a mad BB player. Nothing more fun than having to wait ~ a ~ while ~ to ~ sink…
My favorite part of these submarines is how they’re faster and turn harder than destroyers. One just walked away from my Daring. You also have to basically ram the bastard before you can detect them.
@mariokartstar If you have more than 5IQ it is literally impossible to miss with submarine torpedoes. And yes they are invisible in the heat of battle. Submarines are the biggest cancer in this game ever. Also your claim of no sub going over 29kts is a lie – I only played one submarine (U-2501) and I know it can go 32.5kts maximum. It literally has 27kts of maxiumum speed without any boosts. Subs also turn better than DDs and that is a fact. Get your facts straight before you embarass yourself. People like you are the absolute worst – you will try to fake the stats of the submarines in the desperate attempt to try to claim that they are not the worst addition to the game. Absolutely shameful
@mariokartstar Yeah honestly I dont have much of a problem with subs anymore. I see them the way I see CVs. Is it annoying to deal with? Sure, but that just makes beating them even better. Hunting one down with a DD and depth charging em is so satisfying, same reason I also play US CLs for CVs, shooting down planes and sinking subs are, for me, more fun than destroying ships
@mariokartstar hmmmm, I must have missed the memo were WW2 subs could go anywhere near 29 kts, can’t be detected by hydro, move like a fighter jet, had sonar homing torps, could reload and fire a salvo of torps every 20 seconds, could take a beating from main naval guns and just sail away without sinking immediately and outrun MOST of the surface ships without breaking a sweat. Stop making apologies for bad game mechanics. It’s ridiculous and you know it but your a sub player aren’t you. WG admitted themselves years ago subs were unworkable in the game but once again they broke their word, introduced them and made the game that much worse and broken.
you are lucky, with my Halland, i have the AWS right in front of my guns, so i can not shoot my guns straight ahead, gotta give some angle to shoot them, plus with the AWS forward the only way to spread them out is with curse corrections !
@Gotham Goon Well, you see, WG really likes money, like a lot, like I’m pretty sure they’d sell relatives into slavery for two bucks if they could get away with it, so they’re going to throw every ship type into the game they can to monetize. I’m surprised they haven’t added oilers or other tenders and given them 20k oil-powered flame thrower attacks that set instant permafires while they speed around the map at 30kns with 5km concealment.
Adding to the similar comments. I quit WoWs and won’t come back due to submarines. Every time I think “maybe I should give it another try”, I think about submarines and decide against it.
I came back for a night after months of not playing because my old clanmates needed someone for CBs. Haven’t played since
My favourite thing with subs is that Destroyers the real anti-sub class uses depth charges which were crap when dealing with submarines with sub 8 knot submerged speed.
Trying to chase a sub down in a destroyer when the sub knows what he is doing is nearly impossible and that’s if he doesn’t just shotgun you.
Hedgehog was in service from 1942 and Squid from 1943 and were at least forward firing and were again for use against slow WW2 subs.
Infact its the opposite – submarines are specialized at killing destroyers, not the opposite. The submarine can remain undetected while it stealthly torps a destroyer, while a destroyer cannot remain undetected while it depthcharges a submarine. The number 1 reason to hate submarines, is because they’re implemented as perfect destroyers – they make destroyers obsolete. No destroyer gets homing torpedoes or is immune to radar.
Squid stayed in service until the 1950s and the Russians still use the RBU-6000.
@Fulcrum205 Yes but they are mainly for last resort against diesel electric subs.
For faster nuclear subs or diesel subs that know they have been detected missile launched guided torps and helicopter dropped guided torps are the main weapon.
@Ushio01 I am aware.
I think subs are bullshit in WOW and I don’t even play. I knew the devs would screw it up after watching them screw up World of Tanks for decade
Fun fact: Fastest torpedoes in WW2 the Type 95, could only do 51 knots, but the Tier 6 submarine Cachalot gets 82 knot torpedoes somehow. lol
@Darren4352 But sonar was not so powerful as in the game. Destroyers could look for an submarine for hours and not find it.
@Nikarus 2370 Not sure what you mean by “several”. I’m aware of one case where a US sub torpedoed a lone Japanese carrier but her lost had more to do with poor damage control than the fact that it was a sub. I’m not aware of any US fleet carriers lost to subs.
As far as I know, overall, submarines were highly ineffective against surface warships but were effective at ambushing slower, more predictable transport ships if they happened to be steaming towards the sub.
At best, subs were sometimes uses as scouts but never offensivly in navel engagements. They were too slow, especially submerged. Maybe this game has given you the wrong impression, subs were never used how they are portrayed in WoW.
@177SCmaro >Not sure what you mean by “several”.
Literally, of ~22 fleet, and light carriers the IJN lost. Like 10 of them were sunk by US subs.
For the US, Wasp was sunk outright. Yorktown had other damage and was finished off, and a couple CVEs. There were a few more hit but stayed afloat.
5 of 8 british carriers lost were to German subs.
Certainly seems like several to me.
@177SCmaro It’s funny how you tell me that I must have the wrong idea about subs “because videya game”. When you yourself haven’t studied history enough to know that more than a dozen carriers were sunk by subs. Not to mention other carriers, battleships, cruisers, and even destroyers… that were hit and survived, or hit and sunk, by subs. And that’s not to mention the numerous opportunities that US subs had early on to sink a lot more, but had torpedo problems in 42 and 43.
Yes, subs were typically employed in ambush tactics, yes they rarely acted directly as part of a fleet engagement in the “battle line” so to speak, and they were relatively slow. But the point is moot in an *arcade* battle game where every surface vessel has laser accurate guns (relative to RL), and travels at 200km/hr, there’s no such thing as a battle line, and goofy LOLpen mechanics everywhere. Literally no ship was used in history, like they are ingame. Also subs could stay underwater (even those without snorkels) for literally a day. Couldn’t run around at flank speed, but certainly could stick under for more than 4 minutes (or accounting for WoWS Speed, ~16 minutes), and they certainly didn’t lose air for merely being detected.
Also with regards to transport ships. The most common approach on all sides was with the transport “crossing the T” of the sub giving the greatest profile, not with the transport steaming towards the sub.
Finally, specifically on the claim that subs were never used offensively. While yes the primary role many subs had as part of larger operations, was scouting… it’s not like they were under orders to “never attack anything”, and that’s how a lot of ships got sunk or damaged. If you’re so mad about sub speed. Just make them spawn randomly within the 2 centermost columns or rows of the map and have them fight from there, as if a magical naval battle like one we see in WOWS ever materialized, there’d likely be a screen of 3-5 subs sent ahead several miles that would have made it to the battlefield first.
@Nikarus 2370 First of all, I’m not impressed with your knowledge of history when you don’t cite a single source, nor am I interested in measuring dicks with you.
Secondly, the context is FLEET carriers, not talking about the ponderous little escort carriers that arn’t even in the game. A whopping two come to mind lost to subs, one USA, one Japanese.
I’m not mad about anything. I’m pointing out historical exaggeration is being used to justify crappy game mechanics. Subs were fairly successful at commerce raiding and occasionally getting lucky and picking off a stray ship here or there. The point being they did not sail into the middle of gun duels shitting out walls of guided torps, that is pure fiction well beyond the stretches the other ship types enjoy. In other words, at least the other ship types are combat vessels that did engage in short range brawls, not ambush ships that never did anything like that.
But if “muh arcade game” is the “justification” we’re using to defend it then anyone can use that to “justify” anything they want in the game and this whole fracas you are carrying on about becomes utterly pointless. 30kn subs armed with sidewinder torps? Why not? Destroyers with literal cloaking devices? Sure. Ridiculous hybrid battleships that proved utterly useless in actual war? Lets do it. While you’re at it why not give every ship an orbital super laser ability that unlocks with 4 kills? Or a shield powerup every time they take a cap if we’re just going to dispense with the source material and make this thing a cartoon shooter.
Not suggesting a simulator but there needs to be some balance between arcade fantasy and pure simulation.
I love how WG makes CV and Sub play mechanics almost fool proof by automating a lot of features because like it’s “too much” for the player base to deal with and then expect DDs, CAs and BBs to deal with and manage EVERYTHING on our own! it’s RAGE inducing! I use to play the game as a stress reliever, now I’m lucky if I don’t have a heart attack while raging at the screen…
Thanks again Zoup for posting this snippet at the right time. It makes sure that my former fav game stays uninstalled.
Heh there are days I miss WoWS but then I see the submarines we were promised would never be included and I feel just fine that I’ve not played in years.
Lie after lie and they keep doing it because they know nobody is gonna do anything about it
The game was already insanely campy and then subs.. lol I used to get mad at BBs for sniping from the back but now I get it. Any BB that tries to push with the team starts getting pinged over and over, u really cant do much other than drop some depth charges where u think the sub might be but that is practically useless unless said sub surfaces. Otherwise the BB has to turn and sail away while enduring a barrage of pings and torp spreads. Its irritating.
Hey Zoup I TOTALLY agree! I’ve played a number of games when the escorts all take off and your ship is left trying to fend of a sub dogging you. Homing torps? Who came up with that gem? It totally diminishes game play and its a unwanted distraction. That’s one of the reason’s I hardly play anymore.
Can you imagine if they added a checkbox to the queing so you can [X] do no match with CVs or subs, and a checkbox [X] only match exact level. I would gladly wait 10 minutes for a queue pop if those options existing, but here’s the thing, the playerbase would be 10x what it is now just in the people who quit coming back once word gets out.
@Darrin McCaskill I’d be ok if the options only showed up if you have premium time. I’d never again let premium time lapse.
I’d absolutely be for allowing me to tick a box to choose to be in a battle with subs and CVs or not.
@Steve Peterson Okay, I’d be up for that. As long as I never had to see subs and CVs again.
That’s fuckin hilarious but I agree. The funniest part is the “geniuses” at WG haven’t monetized something like that
@RAW 757 plus those geniuses are so dumb that they don’t realize if they offered it for free, it would increase playerbase millions, which would be the biggest monetization of them all.