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Music: Stranger Think- C418
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I wonder if this is a bigger problem on NA servers, I see double sub games somewhat frequently on EU but never anything this bad, and double CV games almost never happen.. They really should adjust matchmaking to limit certain ship types more.
@Dark Hoshino Might be different on the asia servers but I’m fairly certain T8s can not be matched with superships unless they’re in a div with a T9.
@wofle39 match quality depends on the overall skill of BOTH team.
The only way you can improve it if you improve your skills.
@StarshipEnterprise Again, I’m not talking about winning or skill here, I’m talking about fun and enjoyment. Can you compensate for a 2CV 3sub game with skill? Yes. Does that make playing a match with that composition fun and engaging? No.
@wofle39 It’s a competitive PVP based game, here, competitive elements are fun and enjoyment. If you are dumb, you ruin the fun of others, if these PVP elements not fun to you, you play the wrong game.
And it’s already obvious you shouldn’t play this game, because you want to ruin the fun of others who enjoy this game, just because you not enjoy it, because you don’t know how to play it.
@StarshipEnterprise You keep ignoring the part where I say that’s not the problem. Obviously match quality also depends on the skill of the players, but so long as there’s no skill based matchmaking of any kind there’s no guarantee you’ll get evenly matched teams. So I’ll play to the best of my ability and generally I carry my own weight and then some, but that’s completely irrelevant to whether a match with 2 CVs and 3 subs is fun or not, because the problem isn’t a skill issue, the problem is that the ships matched together makes for a frustrating gameplay experience *regardless* of how well you or anyone else in the match plays. But hey, feel free to keep talking trash about my skill which you know absolutely nothing about and ignoring the entire issue both the video and my comments are about if that’s what makes you feel better.
Also, I think part of what causes problems is that subs have limited options for play. Subs in RL were NEVER used in main battle engagements. We have ONE operation that we can do, and finding a division to do it is very hard. Wolfpack needs to be opened up and other ops added.
@The PirateMongoose WoWs isn’t about “Surface ships” it’s called World of WARSHIPS, not World of Surface ships.
Your whole argument fail at this point. And make your comment stupid.
@StarshipEnterprise So? This is semantics. If we really want to go into this, you can find a video of The Chieftain explaining that “there will be no submarines in the game” because “it just doesn’t fit with the gameplay”. They do get added against their word and lo and behold, they just don’t fit with the gameplay. Submarines for the most part simply didn’t take part in this sort of ship-to-ship warfare and bringing up 3 exceptions doesn’t change that.
Limit to only 1 CV per team and 1 sub per team every match
This reminds me of the 5 SPG match back in the day in WoT, even with 3 you wanted to cry already
Unless you are in a very fast, maneuverable, and stealth light tank. I have several medals for dropping at least 3 by the end of the game.
@play030 You’ll be wiser if you learn the difference between “can’t” and “don’t want to.”
@play030 Nonsense, try some slow american BB and counter T6 (or T8 as it is in brackets) CV. No maneuver ability and no AAs and no range to catch that guys with salvo. Or try counter T6 sub with 8kms range ASW when subs got 10 kms of range. Against subs and civs BBs on T6 got no counterplay beside running away but as majority of them are slow then you cannot outrun sub and definitely you cannot outrun planes.
This explains why I’m seeing a lot of tier 6 vessels minus subs in COOP and scenario matches. Your video is a textbook example of why players are playing COOP and Senario matches.
Co-op for life. I never bothered Random or Rank and now I’ve even less inclination to do so.
@Houmer_ hraje WoWs to be honest I only find problems with a few of the CV’s… the entire USSR Line for one, The FDR & to a lesser extend the Malta and Super CV’s as the S-CV good stuff has long reload times. Other CV’s are fine. (disclaimer: I have the malta and UK S-CV).
For the Sub’s I think they should simply implement 3 types of changes.
1) Max 2 per match (can only replace CV or DD slots)
2) Extend the detection range while at periscope depth from 2km to lets say… 4 or 4.5km (better than a DD but still enough time for a player to react with a chance)
3) Minimum Torpedo arming range of 2km – 2.5km to prevent close range shotgunning (with an increased base detection range of the torpedoes)
@Dark Hoshino There are better and worse CVs but ultimately the unpredictable spotting, no risk involved to the ship itself, auto repairs/ASW and crossfire on demand makes all of them unfair to surface classes. The whole concept of CVs should have been focused on fighting between CVs themselves as they did in real life, not on poisoning the game for everyone else.
Yeah the quality of play in random ops has taken a bit of a nose dive of late for sure.
What I cannot accept is that the one class that should be able to deal with submarines, DDs, is probably the most compromised by the introduction of submarines! Wargaming like to claim that ‘Historical Accuracy’ plays a large part in their development of the game, but the submarine implementation literally blows that argument out of the water.
I kind of disagree with that. DDs are very good at hunting subs WHEN the sub doesn’t have 3 or 4 surface ships behind it shooting at the DD. The issue is that DDs can’t hunt subs until the enemy support has been cleared.
@StarshipEnterprise Well the sub can be 10 or even 15 km in front of the surface ships and depending on the map it is difficult for a DD to get on top of him to use his depth charges since the sub will spot him.
I feel you Sea Lord. About a week ago I also had a double CV, triple Sub game. Granted it was a late night game, but still doesn’t feel great to be in one.
That match was over in like 6 min tho because it seemed everyone agreed to just yolo and suicide their ships to get it over with haha!
Add on top of that the fact that those Subs are a buff to the CV because it removes 3 ships worth of AA out of the game. and it is not like cv have to worry about the subs the computer takes care of it for them.
Its not just about subs being overpowered as such, it is the complete lack of counterplay to them that is a bigger problem. Back when they were first released, the subs had the hydrophone consumable detect both surface ships and submarines. The effect? Surface ships got spotted lesser and submarines got spotted more often. So they separated the consumables so that submarines got detected far less often. They also made it that its quite difficult for subs to hit other subs. And dont get me started on the fact that surface ships cant even know when they are detected by a subs hydrophone, even though its got so much utility for even someone who looks at the minimap just every now and then. Now lets look at surface ships. When subs got introduced, a new ping mechanic came with them. How do you remove the ping effect from your ship? Use the DCP. But its the same DCP for everything from fires to module repairs to floodings to now pings. Now surface ships have to use their DCP even more sparingly lest they use it and then get targeted by a sub, which opens them to getting more fires and floods and modules damaged. And finally we now come to the counterplay. So how do you damage a sub? You drop depth charges at them. From your ship. Up close. Does hydro detect them? Yes, at 2km. If you’re that close to a sub, chances are you’re already wrecked either by them or by their teammates. Or you’re so far away from your team because you were chasing the sub, you have absolutely no game impact. Ships with airstrike depth charges arent better off either. While it is safer to do that, the range of such airstrikes is mostly lesser than the range of the subs ping or torps. Meaning that either you have to push into a sub or they have to push into you for you to be able to damage them. And what about CVs? They get automatic airstrikes which are dead accurate because CV players cannot be bothered by subs. They are after all constantly enjoying the skies and the view above, while wrecking any ships below.
And for people who go defending subs saying players have to get good or learn how to play, theres nothing that can defend an inherently broken class. The new sub line is testimony to that. While the torps are slow, they have such an insane turning radius that it makes speed quite irrelevant. Yes DDs can simply run away from the sub, but the torps still home in, and they home in like moths to a bright light. And DDs are supposed to be the class that should be able to naturally hunt subs, instead the game has made it such that DDs either run away from subs or they die. The subs outspot the DDs, can dive and change course on a dime, can sometimes even outrun the DDs, all the while pinging and burning damage controls and then torping the living daylights out of the class that they’re supposed to be weakest against.
Weegee probably thinks having this kind of experience for new players will make them more likely to spend money to get to higher tiers in the hope that they won’t have to face this there. And of course, there’s always the curiosity factor because everyone is interested in playing subs given their history. What they dont realise or likely ignore is that existing players are getting so frustrated and the playerbase is already dropping. This game is going down the gutter, and its getting to the bottom real fast
Told my clan mates in Clan Battles Sunday night that subs will be the reason I leave the game at least until they make DDs actual sub hunters as they were in real life
And no matter how much those numbers drop they continue to ignore the player base.
I agree with the idea of removing the homing aspect. Make subs shoot torps just like every other ship type.
And then when you make reasonable points like these some sub player comes out of the woodwork to call you a Communist and a Jew and complain about how their class is useless and needs buffs.
Source: saw that happen elsewhere.
I had a game like this not so long ago at tier 8. Double CV’s, triple Subs and hybrid Battleships to top it off.
Yes… been feeling the 2xCV 3xSUB pain for sure… needs fixing
Agreed, I have felt that pain several times in various tiers. It is horrendous when you are in the slow American BBs because you are a sub magnet. Several times the three subs make their way over to me so there is nowhere to go since I can not outrun them.
Link doesn’t work, I think the backslash at the end is not supposed to be there, it was turned into a forward slash, I deleted it and it worked.
Ran into the same thing a couple nights ago. 4 CVs and 6 subs. The game was close, with about half the team lost, but the opposing side had all 3 subs still left trying to take our cap. Rolling with the Kijkduin with just depth charges for anti-sub duties, I tried to defend the cap with all 3 subs pinging me from all sides and launching wave after wave of torps. It was singularly the most frustrating round I have ever had with the game.
I wasn’t going to post earlier but now…. I just finished a t7 match and just go crisscrossed by dozens of torpedos. I know there is a lot of pointing the finger that happens toward certain ships but, for me its not just one ship type, its the shear volume of torps and the extreme amount of damage they can do. Ill admit, I am not great at avoiding torps, so I probably eat more than I should. However, CV takes 2 passes 8 torps, dd puts out 6-8 torps, and sub 4 torps. If they decide to focus you down…. I think reducing torpedo damage is a much better answer than removing a ship from the game. But then that’s just my noob opinion. cheers all.
yeah, when the hybrid Bships got released i got double uptiered in a T6 against a game with 2 carriers 2 subs and a hybrid it was about as fun as you expected and i don’t think im going to come back for a bit
I still say subs do not pose as high of a threat. They can “usually” be dealt with in some way. Its the carriers that are still the bigger problem and later in the match as your already lackluster AA is destroyed, you become SOL in dealing with the planes.
But yes, hydro needs to be reworked with subs not getting an exception in the distance till spotted by hydro, the sub torp reload needs be to increased, and ASW planes needs to reach farther.
In the end though, match making like this will not work. 1 CV and 1 sub max. Makes it even more that I’ll play co-op over random.
best to just use free xp lol to get to t8 sorry my bad.
t6/7 use to be the best tier but now the hole game is lacking consistency. new ships and the only good ones are the ones you have to buy or grind(steel/research) for 6 months with t10. let alone the t11 super ships
It’s funny how the greatest counter to CV and SS in WoWs is a mix of teamwork and the focus fire of the gods. All because someone chose to play a certain type of ship/boat
Can I talk about how happy I am that random ops have been expanded to includer tier 6 through 8. I managed to grind 2 to 3 tiers of about a dozen lines almost exclusively through random ops over the last several months to avoid this kind of shite. Outside of random ops I’ve spent most of my time in Ranked and look at my good fortune where just as I had run out of ships to grind at tier 6 I can not get to work on tier 8 and more importantly (since I can’t run them in random ops) tier 9. I played a few regular random matches a few weeks ago to rack up some potential damage using my Massachusetts and OMG what a pain. And I’m not even talking about the CVs and the subs which were at most a nuisance to me in those matches. The uneven quality of the teams by matchmaker is more than enough to pull your hair out without getting a double CV, triple sub match lineup.
So I’m going to just keep on enjoying playing random ops, ranked, clan battles, brawls and co op. Regular random PVP is pretty well dead for me in this game.
To be fair Pensacola is just about the absolute most garbage tier 6 cruiser in the game. Her concealment sucks and can barely outrange her guns in stock form with a low tier captain. Her gun load time is slow as Hell and her armor is like tissue paper, oh and she doesn’t maneuver very well either. Once I finally was able to get past her I never touched her again except during snowflake events and a couple of times on the public test server to see what she was like with a maxed out commander (better but still crap). Literally there is no cruiser I would rather take into a ranked or competitive match less than the Pensacola(and that’s in a match with literally no chance of being double up tiered and matched against tier 8 ships). Believe it or not she was once a tier EIGHT ship herself before they split the line between heavy and light cruisers and could see tier 10 ships in a match. The only good thing about her is that her guns are decent at setting fires and the AP is solid against broadside light and heavy cruisers. So thankful subs were not a thing when I had to painfully grind my way through her.
Here’s something interesting that inadvertently came to my attention & I would appreciate your appraisal of the idea. Lately (several mths if not longer) I’d noticed that there was a lot of “wipeout” battles. You yourself may have come across these match’s. I started, casually at 1st, to check the stats on each team. Not long afterwards however my stats collection showed that Wee Gee was stacking the deck. My opposition, generally but not all the time, had on the whole, better stats than my team. I’m not saying I’m a unicom player because I’m not.
I do, however, appreciate a reasonably even game which most times in the past USED to go nearly the full time period.
Now a game can be over in 5 minutes, give or take & that’s not only from personal experience but also from other players’ whom I’ve spoken to. I do see this as a major issue & I would
appreciate your analysis/thought/contribution to this game being officially “RIGGED”.
I can assure you on the EU server it’s the same. For some time now there has rarely been a tier 6 game without a carrier. In addition, nowadays there are almost always 2 subs per team. And if you play tier 7 or 8 ships and get down-tiered with tier 6 ships there are usually 2 subs per side as well (usually one tier six and one tier 8 sub).