Loading...All is not well with carriers in warships. Any DD that goes up against Midway Dive bombers can tell you this. Not only that, the two Tier 10 CV setup is broken. I’m going to cover how bad facing two Midways in a DD can be, and I’m going to give some ideas on how to fix it. But I want to hear your thoughts as well.
fact of the matter is cv are attacking dd because bb and ca cl are no fly zones thats the problem
I have a more detailed reply saying the same. Have an update for agreeing lol
Lower AA dmg on cruisers and battleships and then maybe destroyers won’t be the only viable target.
one cv per battle would be good. but match making should be changed. its INSANE to be T8 cv in a T10 battle and i have had quite a few with only 2 or 3 ships below T10. thats no fun at all.
dont know how the midway plays yet since im not quite there yet, but the dive bombers in lexi seems sometime to drop at random.
personally i think im out of the game if they remove cv’s which is one of the classes that i atleast know how to hit something in.
Well the only tier 8 CV’s that can marginally handle tier 10 game with being extremely careful, tier 8 IJN and Uk CV’S are to weak for this, you are correct.
+Nick F i believe you refere to the lexi in that matter. you dont see many japanese cv anymore. atleast not in t8-t10 battles. i give you that. i only have t6 japanese cv but i do understand they been nerfed to death.
+Dant3 been awhile since ive been doing lower tier cv. dont have the patience for it.
i know there a problems. stay at t5-6 for as long as possible. higher up its insane.
the reload of planes however have(it seems to me) been increased. and thats good for me but bad for you. takes a min or 2 to “reload” one new plane. depending of type ofc. i dont have that many to start with so every loss i take, means i have to go out with less and less. or change between plane types. for me there are only a handfull of bb’s and crusier that i even dare go at, so for me i have to go for DD’s which sucks for them. but it also sucks for me. less dmg=less points=less fun.
It took two t10 carriers 10 min to sink you. I don’t see a problem. Also as far as skill is concerned. Your luck with that Shima took far less skill and netted you the same damage done each of those carriers got off you.
2xT10 capital ships 10min away from the battle for single T9 destroyer, it looks like Neustrashimi is crying for nerf!
And for that 10 minutes, the rest of the team was not getting attacked by CVs. I bet the game was won easily by his team with all that wasted focus.
The way you handle a 2CV game in a DD is stay closer to your Cruisers. Dont flank, dont push caps alone. It sucks but if you stay close to your support you can survive. You probably wont have a top performance game but you can contribute and survive.
+Just a random Horse. Did i not just say that 2 CV per team games should never happen? Im a DD main. I have Z52, Gearing, Shima, Khaba, and Kitakaze. Ive played my Sims and Kitakaze the most since CV’s started being in most games. Im not advocating anyone being punished execept for the person at WG who thought it was a good idea to put CV’s in the game to being with. Ive had some absolutely great games in DD’s since the CV rework. Every time i hear people bitching about playing dd these days, even Zoup in this vid, are doing them wrong. He is too far from his support. I never said DD’s were the problem, I said people not adjusting their strategy to the enemy fleet comp is the problem.
But you have now changed the subject to matchmaking which is a whole different issue. Yes it sucks. MM doesnt care about win rates, only ship types and tier. So I see a lot of games that are blowouts with me on either side of them. Especially on the weekend. My rule is “lose 3 in a row, come back in 15 min”.
Ive never played WoT and dont care to.
+hullbreach And as you know mm affects everything, thus it’s a problem there is no fixing to it, (although I wouldn’t get my hopes up, took wg 8 years to start thinking about fixing world of tanks.) Thus no ship balance thus ships like the kitakaze are op, and something like say hsienyang is just stupid. (Or Shinonome with it’s amazing outdated everything.) And yes, I get what you’re supporting, as I do too. CVS are bs, and they at least for me take away too much from DD play to be worth more (fun wise) compared to cruisers or BBS. I brought up matchmaking because it’s a issue that well, never really got addressed and it’s let’s say bugging me, as I assume it does you 😛
+Just a random Horse. The DD’s that have no AA suck in CV games. There’s no fixing that aside from giving them some AA or removing CV’s. The only real fix for MM is to go to a +-1 tier and ban 2CV games. Even then you will still get potato teams. Even a team of players with 50% or better win rate can potato.
To me, the best thing they could do is make clan battles available year round and move the current version to “clan tournaments”.
I disagree that the Kita is OP. Its speed and manuverability are atrocious. If it die in mine its usually to torpedos or i get spotted away from cover and just get wrecked by cruisers.
+hullbreach For me, I quite enjoy these current space battles. The game runs smoother, no CVs, every ships is basically the same aside from the captain skills , so it’s more individual skill based (assuming your team or the enemy team doesn’t suicide) – so I’d love to see some of the things in it implemented in random battles , such as the maps and sounds, ship skins… the +1 -1 spread and 1 cv max. – On the kitakaze, I should rephrase that. The guns on it are ridiculous (although harugumo is even crazier) , it gets 12 shima torps a pop as I understand , it handles better than a cruiser overall, it has smoke and good spotting range (compared to other gun boats). I haven’t played it myself, and a lot of people that I’ve talked with and played with say it’s kinda overpowered. The one thing I’d take away from the kitakaze and harugumo in particular is the 32mm pen, I don’t think any other DD can get 32mm pen aside from the large 150mm cruiser guns from germans, but at the same time they don’t get 2.3 second reload on 8-10 guns. I think 27mm would be perfectly adequate (even 25mm, since they are 100mm guns and my gearing would only get 27mm pen with the 127mms) , with a 0.5 – 1 second reload nerf whilst buffing the maneuverability of the ships, to make it feel more DD like and also not overwhelm everything with raw firepower (As I’ve seen many times…) – At least I feel that would be a fair rebalance on those ships. Tell me your views on it.
+Just a random Horse. Its a good ship. Yeah it handles better than a cruiser but its garbage handling for a DD. You only get 12 torps out running the reload booster and the reload is LONG. If you knife fight just about any other DD youll die to torps. Its long for a DD too. The guns are amazing. I run IFHE on them. You can choose either OK rudder shift or OK acceleration. I picked acceleration. Its still a big, slow target. You have to maximize cover and you cant outrun much of anything. You have to hide in it at all times. Behind islands or smoke or both. It melts tier 8 planes. Tier 8 cvs usually make one run at it then go elsewhere. Tier 10 planes can hurt it but you will still shoot a bunch down. I dont think anything needs to be done with the guns because to get the best out of them you must get IFHE. Its really a glass cannon.
On addition to the Torpedobombers:
At the moment they do very little alpha damage and no damage over time at all. The floodchance is extremly low and if you get one, players are still conditioned to repair every flood at once. It will take years before they learn that a flood does the same damage as a fire now.
the problem is the speed reduction i repair one flood just for that
First off, a quick note: Many of the clips posted show a DD using it’s AA at it’s longest range. The single best defense against CVs is to not get spotted. And that’s not too difficult when you have your AA turned off due to DDs at high tiers having an average 2.8km air detection.
Now for solutions:
1) Make Midway dive bomber ellipse much bigger. Right now, it’s far too precise to miss anything. And when you compare it to the Royal Navy carpet bombers, there’s a pretty noticeable disparity as the RN bombs do half the damage, have less pen, and have an ellipse *considerably* bigger than that of USN DBs. Can’t speak for Audacious yet, but the Implacable dive bombers are *garbage*, whereas Lexington has exactly the same bombs and bomb count, but with only a bit less damage (although still much more than RN ones). AP bombers are the ones who should have tight ellipses since their job is all about the precision strike.
2) Fix the super precision drop glitch on dive bombers by making sure the reticle shows the proper drop pattern even at the end. When the ellipse doesn’t move and forces all bombs to hit a very precise spot at the front tip, that’s a problem.
So again … HE bombers should have large ellipses as they can cause massive damage hitting pretty much anywhere (if you’re USN), whereas AP bombers should have smaller ones.
Completely agree here they should Nerf HE bombs elipse and make the AP better not even talking about the RN stuff.
Another note kinda BS how the attacks that did the most damage where when he was horizontal to the DBs since it’s when they should hit less
+Carlos Pitteri Known glitch. I mentioned it in (2).
The glitch is the issue, not the elipse. You have to really ride the dive down and expose your planes to alot of aa to get an accurate drop, glitch aside. Bombs regularly fall outside the aim marker, it really doesnt mean a thing as far as where the bombs actually fall, its all rnjesus. I do agree with the ap bombers needing more precision. Or hell, nerf the dbs but buff the torps. Its sickening how they went right ahead with adding a new line without finishing some semblance of balance with the 2 that were already there. There wouldnt be half the db spam there is now if the torps had a halfway reasonable flood chance, especially since they reworked floods now. They just keep half finishing stuff. Stupid.
No, this is horrible idea. The damn HE dive bombers are the only real tool available for Midway! If you start nerfing them you better buff Midwats torpedoes and HVAR’s! Not to mention that the biggest problem is with DD’s overextending and keeping their AA on thus having reduced stealth! AP bombs do deserve increased accuracy though!
Since rework I have played cv a lot, tier 6, 8 and just picked up Midway and I have played since closed beta so shows how much I like the rework. My midway is stock cause out of credits to purchase better planes and such.
You talk about enemy midways harassing you nonstop what about your teams midways why don’t they drop fighters to protect you is what I do, granted I can’t do it all the time. Yes had my first 2 midway game yesterday and is wrong should never be two CV per side.
The drop fighters are the most useless thing in the game. That and you have to go way out of your way in a CV to use them defensively. Then they don’t last all that long either so the CV can just wait them out.
NoZoup they must give the midway better torp bombers and rockets if you nerf the dive bombers, as is the cvs are getting less fun to play as they nerf them into the ground from idiots who don’t know it is a TEAM game, stick by your AA ships and support them maybe?
But DD isnt suposed to stick to your team. DD is suposed to be ahead of team,scouting and flanking enemy while being undetected.
+Kuba Zetek DDs are support ships, they actually are supposed to be just ahead of the rest of the fleet to scout for them. Just because idiots like to play dds as solo ninjas and sneak way around behind the enemy team doesn’t mean that’s how they’re meant to be played.
+elmateo77 I’ll give you just one of my many examples… I was in a division with my AA built gearing, with a AA built GK, was pushing a flank with a des moines and yamato , all sticking together so our AA would you know do something. Enemy midway (as they always do with pretty good chances of success) flew through at least one AA defense consumable, 4-5 ships worth of AA and dropped 6 perfect torps, to then continue harassing us. He ended up killing me, the des moines and I think the yamato. Perhaps he didn’t do all the damage, but he certainly did all the spotting, made us turn at his leisure and considering he had nearly the same XP on a loss that of our top player, I don’t think he had a “bad” game. If this isn’t broken, I dunno what is lol.
DDs job is to scout ahead thats why they go 40-50 knots, you are proposing everyone bunch up. That is exactly what is happening, all strategy out the window because of one class.
Maybe just have one carrier per team then? That shouldn’t be to difficult to implement, at least you would think so.
In a reddit thread Sub_Octavian (WoWs community manager IIRC) explained why having a maximum of 1 CV per team would cause problem to the matchmaking system.
In short, longer queue times – possibly even accumulating CVs in the queue and creating <24 player matches.
0:38 I’d like to call this a “disproportionate projection of force”.
Experienced Midway player here:
Before anything, my bread and butter are my 4 T10 ships. Yamato, Montana, Midway and Shimakaze. I’m really good at them vs anything else I own.
Inquiring the enemy DDs: I personally LOVE to pick upon DDs myself. Why? They just completely neglect team support. 80% of games you can see them on the opposite side of the map and on really really far-in positions. People just became addicted to flank and try to stealth torp at ALL cost.
What does this mean? You can ignore completely that they have any AA support and just pick on them for free, and this video just proves the point. Remember back in the day that people where complaining about sniping BBs? Remember the cause? DDs neglected any smoking support or cruisers chased DDs on the other side of the map. Well, if you as a DD want to keep doing the exact same thing, get ready to get killed by the CV.
What have I done to counter this when playing my Shima? 1: Turn off my AA. Primarily, I really don’t do much damage anyway. This also allows me to still get 2.8 Km concealment, by the time CV spots me, they are too close to drop me anyways and 95% miss if the try to drop when I first get spotted. 2: Don’t drag race the capture point and just stay nearby a friendly cruiser. If you wait a bit, you can still contest the capture point and you might even have a friendly ready to hunt the enemy DD. So…. Just adapt the playstile accordingly. But people are complaing because they want to keep playing the exact same way as if there’s no CV. And again, this videos ilustrates this perfectly.
As a Midway:
The rockets are a complete joke. They don’t deal any damage at all, the aiming is all over the place if you decide to move 1 inch in either direction. Even against DDs, that that’s supposed to be their main target. You can hardly do any more that 1k – 1.5K dmg just with a perfect salvo. They often just end up as scout planes and the quickest way to place fighters where you need them.
The torpedo bombers just barely barely hold together. I made my Midway fully spec to torpedo bombers. The spread if HUGE unless you hold still for like 10 sec in a 15 sec run. Even if you manage to close the reticle completely (Wich I now do consistently) Even when you connect all 6 of them, you do more damage over time with fires than connecting all 6 torpedoes. Also, unless you have health active, you are guarantee to lose 2-3 planes on every run you do vs pretty much any ship. That’s if you want the best spread possible.
So, you end up relying on the only option left, bombs. Wich cause people to think that they are OP because that’s the only thing they are getting hit with.
If I get focused by the enemy Midway with torpedos while playing the Yamato, I don’t even care, they really just don’t seem a thread. And with Montana: well, I just don’t care for planes at all, they can’t touch me early game.
So resume: the problem aren’t the bombs, are the players who won’t adapt in a CV game. And the lack of the better option, we just use bombs anyway.
Very well thought out response, with the current meta, playing the shimakaze is no fun. Thanks for the tips!
+Versus No it’s not. If there’s a CV in the game, the scouting role defaults on the CV now, and DDs now have to team play and smoke themselves and other ships while denying enemy entrance with walls of torps.
See? That’s the reason why people complain, you need to adapt you strategy if there’s a CV in the match…
+Kneecapper I could tell you, Worcester, DesMoines and Minotaurs are a no-fly zone for me. Ship that tend to hind behind island and smoke. Most captures points in today’s maps are sorunded by island, if DDs don’t drag race to the enemy spawn they can enter the capture point, while staying close to the island and thus under AA cover, also, scouting for the CA.
If you play DD, try turning off your AA, you’ll see the concealment you get from it will go a long way.
If I have happen to run into a CV game with my shima, I could upload it to show you my suggestions.
+Fernando747 Oh wow nice you get to decide that DDs no longer scout. I will let everyone else know that in Fernando’s dream world that is the case. Bye now take care.
+Versus r/woosh
players: MIDWAY TOO STRONK. NERF THE DAMN SHIP!
WG: What? CV is too stronk? better nerf EVERY CV!
sounds like you got singled out because you are a Youtuber
WG will never allow anything that require “a lot of skills”
CVs: go to much trouble to use attack aircraft to deal 154-3000 hp dmg on dds
dds: entire gameplay changes and cant/wont adapt
WG: nerfs attack aircraft
CVs: start using divebombers, because if they hit they can do 3k-6k dmg and its easier to aim with DBs
WG and dds: surprised pikachu face
nobody:
Me: writes this comment
Me: honestly what did u expect cvs to do?
Terrible matchmaking and the 2 CV’s issue has me not playing the game until they address these issues
I did not like the rts cv play…now i am superunicum cv on stats…i love them now…you cant do insane damage. You rarely do 200k. You often do 100k + in a tier 10 cv and that its ok now.
Another DD player that won’t alter their play style to suit the game they’re in. Big surprise.