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Wargaming is single handly trying to save one of the most hated ship class in the game
Used to be CV’s….now its subs
@@gallusace6514 Should still be CVs.
I mean subs are just DDs but less dangerous. I dont see why people lose their mind over them
@@xPureNRG007x they have a new class in which to save and improve… Despite the “vocal minority” not wanting the class in the game. 😅 And it fundamentally breaking the game mechanics
@@unowno123they haven’t played them. Plain and simple. I complained about them too until I tried one out. I wasn’t prepared for how slow they are (especially submerged) and how scary DDs are.
subs have some of the worst players in the team in many many games, you get a decent or even good sub player and they can change the course of a battle
Never seen that happen in my games. Too slow and too little damage they deal
@@unowno123 and too easily avoided. homing torpedoes are easy to juke even with battleships…
This is true, and actually why I was not too troubled by subs. Yes, a really good player will dominate, but that is true of that player in any ship. Put them in an Iowa, Shimakaze / Halland etc and the result is the same. But the poor sub players impact the game far less than a poor DD player, or god forbid a poor CV player.
People getting their damage from shotgunning in the Gato aren’t Gatoing right. It is really good at, get this, long range torpedo sniping.
except homing torpedoes are garbage that are easily juked….even by battleships, who shouldn’t find it so easy to avoid….considering real life equivalences’ took 30 minutes to get up to speed because they’re so lumbering and slow…
lmao no, Gato’s 16.5 km torps have 10.7s reaction time that is PLENTY of time for the enemy to dodge even a GK can reliably dodge them, also those torps have 1.9km detections range so the enemy can spot them from far away without even using Sonar, so good luck landing those torps when enemy can see it slowly coming toward them from the moon. For reference Gearing’s 16.5 km torps only have 7.9s reaction time and 1.4 km detection
@@faynk.6247 that assumes the target is paying attention. It is quite impressive how often they aren’t.
So CAs can get deleted in one hit but god forbid a sub is made easier to kill.
Subs are harder to kill they make fewer kills now because they can’t get within 2 km of you and shotgun which is a great thing.
@@Michael-gp3vl 3km…subs are worthless within 3km…
@@steven2183 Not true they have 100 percent damage at 2.9 km, it is under 2.9 km where they are penalized.
@@Michael-gp3vl nope, it scales between 2.9km and 3km. so at 2.9k you only do 10% dmg…and they have to have travelled that far, not shot from that distance…it’s at 3km that they do 100% dmg…..
@@Michael-gp3vl wrong, and if it was only as simple for subs as a 3.0 sometimes you have to be further then 5km to do dmg depending on ship heading.
We just got a bunch of depth charges buffed. I doubt they’ll be getting any huge buffs any time soon
would love to see them try giving all DDs a limited range ASW unit
It’s called Sonar
YEAL NOT ALL DDS HAVE IT
@@barrybolton1396
Not surprised by the result. Staying outside 3km especially in mid game is quite hard (and when you are on a losing team and the other team is advancing). Your nerfed torps just don’t do the damage.
This will likely mean the proposed changes to the battery time length of subs won’t go through. There are so many ships now that can detect subs underwater, plus Radar ships detecting them on the surface has driven most sub players either to operate from mid range (turning them into weak DDs) or simply not play them. I’m playing more DDs now where, once a submarine has got ahead of his protective team you just charge them down. Who cares if you take 4 torps as once you get under 3km they do stuff all and then, if you have a German on British DD with Sonar (or a Japanese or Italian Cruiser with Submarine detection) that sub is yours. Charging subs is now a tactic.
Now saying all that I am still finding success with, primarily German, subs because I operate with stealth and utilise the better underwater time than the Yanks. The trick is knowing what you are up against and spotting those Cruisers with radar and sub detection and keeping as far as you can from them while targeting them. DDs are now very scary as they close the distance really fast and just diving and staying silent is the best bet. I can still get a 100k in a sub but I have also got less than 10k more often because of the more aggressive nature of surface captains once they know where you are. Many times I feel like a light tank in WoT where I get my xp from spotting damage more than any torpedo strikes. In my experience. But I have noticed a marked drop off in subs on the Asian Server with my ASW DDs having no targets. Seriously thinking of rejigging those captains asw skills.
Asian server always like that , so many players are all about just having their damage numbers , if they can no longer OP over the other then they move on to the next OP ship and all the while they never actually team and group , fighting is not in their blood , battling is not their intent , supporting teammates , well they ask for support but they never give any themselves , that’s how I feel these days on the Asian server
as a DD main I do agree charging SS now more viable but no more viable as past patches, as its not the charge nor the shotgunning the issue for any DD fighting against a SS, its the homing torp and enemy surface ships , in all practical sense DD and C still lack actual proper ASW , but then they lack actual proper AA too , which are funny cause they are suppose to be the one who do that but they cannot
The answer to all these issues is to remove the ping mechanic and homing torps and have them rely on skills like DD torps.
Which is what they should have done in the first place. It’s quite possibly the most annoying and most ridiculous mechanic in the game
@@Slapdash1 especially on BB with a limited number of damage control uses like Schliff and Kremlin. They just follow you for a few minutes pinging and torping at you burning up all your Damage cons and then everyone else lights you on fire or the sub lands torps on you.
This is exactly the core issue with subs. WG designed them as a troll class.
Pinged torps dont do enough dmg we sub players use unguided mostly if available. You cant live threw the asw if you ping the 6 times needed to kill a bb with homing torps.
@@kevinduesing7468 Have you ever look at ping indicator on sub on your team? After seeing it 90% of the time it is off by enough that you have no chance to hit the sub as long as she see planes coming…
It’s not all about “sub” performance (or any class of ship) to WG; It’s also about how premiums subs are selling. We’ll probably never know if they’re meeting their financial targets. That is a key driver to the speed and extent of any forthcoming changes.
Way I see it, the vast majority of frustration always came down to the feeling of being unable to counter the sub, not their dmg.
I personally hate submarines with the fiery intensity of the sun, BUT I do acknowledge that they’re here to stay. I feel like subs were in an ok state before the nerfs, and that it was more a matter of surface ships lacking tools, or the tools simply being too god-awful for meaningful counterplay.
A couple of things I think could help are:
– Revert sub changes (Madness I know but stay with me)
– Extend range of ASW for both cruisers and BB’s by +2km for every single ship with ASW.
– Make it so oil-leakage stays for a minimum of 3 visible pools, even if insta-repaired.
– Reduce the radius for the random placement of the sonar-indicator by about 25% (it’s like a 3km radius atm if the sub isn’t spotted)
– Change the battery resource to instead be oxygen, and remove the forced surfacing when it runs out but at the cost of damage over time and a -10% penalty to both speed and turning, at same rate of an onboard fire, with the difference that the only way to stop it is to surface.
The above would let subs play both long and short range again, but give surface ships a better chance to counter them when they get found out. At the same time, it would let a submarine use their health as a resource if they overextend and run out of oxygen before being out of detection range, introducing more ways to play as the player has to decide whether he can stay submerged while taking dmg because he just needs those last 300m before surfacing, or risk surfacing early.
I’m not a game dev, I don’t claim that my ideas are perfect. But I think it could be a start.
I think this is very reasonable! Wargaming went way too far nerfing subs that, either didn’t need the nerfs, (assuming they just buffed ASW capabilities) or, needed nerfs, but in different ways. The biggest nerf though is the new ping indicator. That really killed sub gameplay for me.
Please make a top 5 coal ship video
A good video Sea Lord thanks…..
They could make it a gradual increase in dmg for the first 3 km and or make them harder to find under water, like sub survalance would only find them if they are moving, and you would get a ping location if they fire a torpedo salvo. For those with hydro when subs are deeper in the water they could give a approx location it being more accurate the faster the sub is moving. Wargaming could also possibly add a different stealth stat to subs under water, like depending on the ship it could reduce its sound signature… what do you think?
Those numbers represent how popular shotgunning was to subs. So much for shotgunning was a rare occurrence.
Great video. I think damage and XP are in line with expectations, however I am surprised how much frags have dropped off. Probably a direct result of nerfing shotgunning, but maybe that is in line also.
It is not the damage or kill ratio that is down. It is just that subs have a quicker and higher mortality rate. A dead sub does no damage at all. Three things have changed. You now can loosely track a sub by the ping indicator thus more air dc are going to hit. Second. there is now a whole class of ASW CAs and CLs that can find and kill subs. Sub detection just went up by a notch. (I just hunted down a sub in the Hobart. It was fun and easy.) And with the shotgunning remedy, a dd only needs to get close to subs and then they become helpless because a torpedo hit at close range will not come close to hurting a DD. If you are just slightly competent in a dd, hunting subs is amazingly easy. Call it the “happy times” for wow dds. No fan of subs but they got hit hard.
All they need to do with subs is take away the dummy torps, buff the guided ones a little and make it so you can have running silent mode where it’s almost impossible to be detected if you’re at a low speed underwater with a slightly slower drain of battery power in that mode.
Only because it is much easier to detect them now with more ships getting ASW planes and sub surveillance.
Almost every round I am in a sub I get any detection, even with ping, its spam ASW.
It forced subs more like a CV player who (majority of the time) go after single targets and stay away from grouped ships to lower the potential damage outcome.
I’m finding subs much harder to hit with airstrikes than before, so the increase in damage my hits do is moot, since I’m hardly getting any now. Also, that ping indicator is misleading about location of the sub, in my opinion. Extended range for ASW airstrikes would be good. Now that there’s a reduction in damage from inside 3 km, subs don’t try to get close anymore, which makes them harder to detect.
So as said a while ago, they need their own game mode. Convoys?… but then they really need to buff subs in the mode to encourage an opponent
The problem is that Torpedoes are the only way subs can deal damage, and the new mechanics make it easy for a team to just roll over subs like a freight train. Subs need a way to bite someone being too aggressive. IMHO, the way to do this is to remove the damage activation range, but only for the homing torpedoes. The homing torpedoes do less damage than the dumb fire, so they were always the lesser option for shotgunning. Also, returning the homing torpedoes to their previous state will bring back sub vs sub combat, which has been severely lacking since the changes. There is enough ASW out there now to punish pings that buffing the homing torps should not change the balance of power too much.