Loading...Testing the 8.0 PTS client with a Montana to see how it stacks up in a game involving reworked CVs. I discuss most of the changes and my thoughts, hope you have a wonderful day and I’ll catch you next time!
Tier X American Battleship Montana Replay
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AA mounts need a massive health buff in 0.8.0, over the match a ship loses mounts while a CV loses planes, but in 0.8.0 a CV will have infinite planes and will thus massacre late game
+Khang An I think the same way… I sincerely hope that WG changes the infinite amount of planes to a limited amount… These new CVs already are DOT-monsters, if there is no limitation to the amount of planes combined with the way AA defence now works, I’m scared of the future…
+Khang An I have different experience, once I lost a full torpedo squad as midway, because I moved silly into too many aa. I couldn’t use a full torpedo squad for a real long time, I picked the rocket squad, then the dive bomber and after these two squads, the torpedo squad was still not full loaded…
Also the hits of torpedos are not that high, if one or two torps hits, then it’s okay? Do you prefer a 12 plane torpedo strike by a Hakuryu and one shot you? It’s way better and fairer for everyone.
Beside that, when I played cruiser, the enemy had so much trouble to hit me with torps, almost impossible.
+Pikko Zoikum Well, I just feel like they sit at top of the mountain and constantly drop sh*t to anybody, if I try to chase them, more sh*t will come, if I ignore them, they will keep drop sh*t on my team. Success? Good for them. Fail? Just waste their time.
But ship’s HP won’t recover overtime, surface ships will fall eventually. Because CV don’t have to risk HP like any other ships and it takes amount of time to reload planes if you lose whole squadron, to me it’s a restriction, like BBs have 30s unable to do any major damage or torpedo boat wait for the next strike, not the punishment for misplay, I mean when you shoot someone and but no one shoot back, that’s unpunished. For other ships, the punishment is HP or even death, the enemy team has that advantage for the rest of the battle. If I shot down their planes and get some score for my team, I’ll gladly except it in exchange my HP, but the true is I have to do it to save my ass and I gain nothing.
In old version, if enemy CV consider attack me cost too much, then they will restrain to attack me again because they have limit, that’s why invest AA spec to reduce their power overtime. Of course, I hated old CV because they can manipulate the map and nuke someone. But I still disagree with the unlimit aircrafts idea.
BTW, I said that I’ve never reached top tier CV, I only played low and mid tier CV hangar capacity which is limited, if you misplay, you will run out of planes in middle game and can’t do anything, then you give enemy team a great advantage. But now with infinite planes, as long as you remain HP, you can attack if your planes are off cooldown until someone reach your lair.
And sorry if I’m wrong, you said 50 planes were shot down by each CV but do they contain fighters or just attack aircrafts, because 50 are literally the entire amount of attack planes of tier 8 CV.
Finally for my long reply, I usually play IJN ships which are non-AA at all (again, mid and low tier), then it’s just about time for those CV find out a sweet spot to drop torp, IJN cruisers are fast but aircrafts much faster. Unless you have decent AA then they gonna try drop torp as fast as possible then leave before you shot down their planes then they missed.
P/s: much appreciated for share your experience so I can adapt upcoming hell.
+Khang An There is a punsihment. If a CV loses his planes, he will lose damage. And if a bad player loses a lot planes, he won’t be able to start full squads.
I did a test with the Midway, wasting instantly my planes in a training room. I could start 2 squads of Torpedo planes. The second squad started at minute 57, at that point, the reloading of an empty flight deck started. I used the reload module, so I also had a higher capactiy of 17 planes on the flight deck (instead of 14) and also a faster reload. At 43:30 I had 9 planes loaded for a full squad. It took 13 minutes and 30 seconds to load one squad…. That means, if a CV loses two squads pretty fast, he will maybe not be able to start a 3rd squad of the same type. Of course you can start other planes, but if he loses them as well, the enemy team won’t suffer a lot of the enemy cv.
The reload of one single torpedo plane is around 90 seconds. I picked of course the worst example, since other planes load in 60-80 seconds, but I noticed that, when I played the Midway in a match- I wasted my planes two times silly into enemy AA… I couldn’t start any other torpedo plane for almost the whole match.
Edit. I tested another round with the Shokaku. I lost many planes, since the bots are all moving together and I had issues to start squads with the full squad size… Sometimes I had no full squad of torp and dive bomber, so I had to take the attack planes, which then sufferend on damage as well.
Well, and I only lost 34 planes in total – guess if the planes were limited, it wouldn’t make any difference?
+Pikko Zoikum That’s helpful, thanks for your information. And Happy New Year.
2:32 that’s a LOT of catapult planes!!!
Boobash 15 He just pooped 6 planes in 5 seconds.
One of the many idiotic things happening in this update.
100% taking a break from the game once CVS are released. Wait for everyone to finish fapping over them for that first week
radar ships has 3-4 charges of radar and it last for few seconds. and its easy to avoid. but the cv rework is stupid
Strong temptation to let others beta test this half baked rework when it goes live. Unless there’s some added incentive to endure that fiesta of fun and engaging.
+Matthew Tencza Is that going to really work? I’ve seen worcesters with AA support from both carriers and my battleships (in this particular example the frenchies , with their pretty okay AA) and wham. 3 squads of torpedo bombers, dev strike on the Worcester… now I dunno how good CVs will be in this patch but infinite planes makes it so you can forever be perma fired/ flooded.
Nah, I got my tissues and Jergins ready
+Just a random Horse. Unfortunately, such imbalances will be normal when this first hits the live server (developers literally said that on their blog). It’s apparently harder to achieve balance on the test servers, where the playerbase is smaller.
This…worries me a lot. As someone whose highest tier ships are Battleships (Yamato & Musashi) and a Worcester, I feel like I’m going to be suffering in my Yamusashi to even be able to do anything going forward. Especially on Musashi, whose AA armament is already nonexistent, I don’t know if I’ll even be able to reasonably play her outside of the next ranked season (where at T9 there won’t be carriers to deal with). With Yammy’s AA already being built for close-range punishment over anything else, I’ll really not be able to even deal with the planes there, I worry.
I’m looking forward to the Cruisers video to see how they hold up — maybe Worcester will remain a massive threat for carriers.
Don’t worry Yamato has adequate AA, try it on the test server. I’ve noticed that Notser tends to overstate real and perceived issues with certain features he does not like. His criticism of the sector control selection menu is quite weak in my opinion, you would have the menu up for just a split second to select the side and it wouldn’t really obstruct you in any way. He seems ti be nitpicking quite a bit with this rework. The power of CVs 0.8.0 is not that much grater than it is now. They have only 1 squadron up limiting their strike and spotting capabilities, strong AA ships can shred planes just as fast as they do now. We should just wait and try the update with as little bias as possible but i guess that will be quite hard with CCs like Notser and Farazelleth constantly shitting on WG for certain decisions, for example not being able to swap from CV to planes and back to CV without losing your planes which I find is a good balancing choice and makes CVs less OP. They also bring up some good points like the fact that you can’t control your CV speed while flying so i guess it’s not all bad.
+DKP555
Fair enough. I do agree with you in regards to the sector control thing — unless it’s a, “you must click precisely in the circle,” issue, in which case I can see where it would get frustrating (especially in ships where you’re in the front lines, e.g. German BBs), but if it’s a drag-to-one-side thing, then yeah, I don’t really have a whole lot of problem with it personally.
Honestly though I still do worry — I feel like even with the overall balance, it’s going to decidedly feel punitive towards players who get chosen by the CV as a target. Granted, as they stand now CVs can push through most anything other than a full AA spec Worcester division, but without the ability to extend out the aura I feel like there’s no push for team play with AA, which is what I *love* to do with my US CLs, because there’s just something satisfying about a little bit of teamplay at times.
Frankly though I don’t put a lot of stock in what Farazelleth says on the matter — it’s exceedingly clear that he was happy with where CVs were, and given how they were either worthless or dumpstering your entire team, in the six matches out of a thousand you see them in, that ain’t a good look.
I dunno though I think Notser has some great points on it all. I don’t think it’s end-of-the-world oh-my-god levels of “needs improvement,” but it does look from all the content I’ve seen like they do need a little more work, and I think 0.8.0 is not the place to start for CVs.
I’ve played the Worcester on the test server, and I got curb stomped by a Midway, even though I was AA spec and had all my mounts intact. Add in that CVs have infinite planes but I have limited mounts and DAA charges, and it’s very unbalanced. Meanwhile I see ships with poor AA and catapult fighters surviving. USN now has nothing going for it, since AA values don’t matter anymore.
+DKP555 I hated old CV because they have many eyes on the map, RNG AA gun to them and sometimes I had to back to the port in 3 mins the because of their nukes. No more now but CV may come up with new strategy, charge like an idiot, the goal is set as many ships on fire/flood as possible, do it again and again and again. Because infinite aircraft then don’t have to care about it, may sound nonsense but there’re bunch of bot players out there who just use their planes as shells. Shells in WoWs are infinite too but not an easy task to land on target (harder to pen and cit). Now we have Mega-Conqueror with assured DoT??.
The problem is I have to deal with them automatically by game mechanic and they can attack me manually with high accuracy, that the thing WG never fix on old or new version CV.
+Khang An I feel like the new CVs should be more DoT focused than alpha focused. In my opinion AP bombs ruined any balance CVs had, just enabling them to delete almost all the hp of high tiered BBs was a bit of a misstep imho but what’s done is done. In the last waterline video they said that they plan to balance CVs based on the feedback from the live server so we should just wait and see. I hope they listen to the feedback and fix the issues with aircraft hp and AA reliability.
I hate the entire CV rework …. at this point i would be Ok if they removed the whole freaking class from game ….
I think carriers are an important part of this game (more than submarines) and we would be missing something if they took out that class.. They could have simply reworked the RTS gameplay instead of putting a completely new and awfully boring looking new system in the game… I mean you’ve probably seen a video of the new gameplay and it’s just a PvE, you don’t actually play against anyone, with the RTS system you still have an opponent CV but now you’re just perma flooding and firing Battleships which is stupid since one fire deals too much damage already.. Also the refund is a joke since you only get XP back but not one single credit…
Keeps being said, WG doesn’t listen to the commoners.
+Steve Haney Exept that cv make up less than 1% of the palyerbase. Those fuckers leaving woundt even dent WGs income.
I agree. It is world of warplanes! I looks wierd and with AA changes it would be a big issue for gameplay.
+19Crusader91 He’s talking about anyone who doesn’t like this rework being removed from the game so far more than 1%.
That animation of your ship launching an entire squad of airplanes from a single catapult launch is just incredibly embarassing and not at all up to the usual quality standard of WGs design team imo. While i’m pretty excited for the new gameplay aspect, this is yet another thing that makes the rework seem rushed. Sad.
CV plane launching graphics have always been horrible. And plane retrieval was really bad too. Was one of the things that put me off playing cvs in the first place. So archady.
it does look bad, but how can they fix the problem that several planes have to take off from 1 place?
It looks like a placeholder to me
This whole rework is a joke… Really sad that WG is just killing itself right now…
I think a more viable idea is you like radio in fighters from a friendly CV. Makes more logical sense and looks less derpy. Give me back my normal catapult fighter!
7:03 Are we gonna ignore that 61,5k salvo on Yamato,though?
ive done 85k in my GK to a Yammy
+zlkimagenX on yamato pretty common,if notser 5-6 km closer he can instantly delete yamato with one salvo.
I got that once(60k) in an Izumo, Close range and yammy was broadside.
So I think it’s probably not that hard especially for a better ship like the Montana.
Montana able to destroy anything a salvo when lucky. There just old videos showing that. From DD to Yammy. Notser’s salvo was not even getting many citadels.
Wait.. we get a full fighter squad being sent from a monty? ?
Early version of Phalanx system, it didn’t shoot projetiles but whole airplanes 😀
I honestly thought I had imagined that. Glad I wasn’t the only one. XD
Notser: Japanese dive bombers now have AP bombs.
Me: **Shakes in Arizona**
+Josemi EC Ah so they did tune it around….Still though, I would much rather HE bombs as then I can hit DDs and damage cruisers reliably. AP bombs pretty much act like shells, they can literally bounce if you get the wrong angle which is a real downside.
+Aiden Thomas yesterday I was playing in the PTS, although it was against bots (not enough players), 300k damage on both tier X CVs (Haku and Midway). The thing is that rockets deal a lot of damage if you aim them properly 6/7 k on DDs and 5k for each drop in a Zao + ? (a 11k on a kurfust’s superstructure too).
Ap boms deal great damage and He bombs too + fires.
Torpedoes breaks engines too often and that means that you are a sitting duck ready for take a lot of more torpedoes/floadings.
In my opinion in this rework the CVs are even more broken.
+Josemi EC Well ofcourse they are. As it is when you aim from the sky, its still easier, but when youre controlling your planes, oh boy does it all change. You have an elevated view of your target, not to mention a maneuverable plane so you can make corrections before the drop. But in all honesty though, when I played in the beta, I had high hopes for it since there builds were limited due to limited commander skills, however now its pretty much going down for me as now that I can see that CV planes dont even fall against a somewhat full AA build, its pretty sad.
+Aiden Thomas and for not loosing planes if you see a lot of them very damaged you simply send them back and launch another type so when they reach the CV you will have a full health squadron ready
+Josemi EC In all honesty though, I would rather go on with the strike, if I lose a few planes im not gonna be penalized. I would much rather do this in USN CVs cuz even if I lose a few torpedo bombers, I have that really good 2000lb HE dive bombers to rely on. In IJNs case, eh I guess I could use the rockets more often.
Here’s the reality, BB’s are the most played & popular class in the game & so to cater to the smallest & least played class in the game CV’s WG have decided that BB’s especially will have to suffer.They are turning CV’s into a DOT class which will have a massive impact on BB’s ( a Hakuryu can launch 4 consecutive torp attacks on 1 ship,if he gets a flood on the first attack what do you do ? repair ? when he could potentially get 3 more floods on you ? ). In their attempt to balance CV’s the most powerful class in the game WG could very well break the game for everyone else. Here’s hoping they know what they’re doing. Great video as always Notser ,wishing you & your family a Happy New Year.
agree, sniping a ship becomes easier. With 4 “squadrons” you can simply hit (and maybe flood) a ship, then fly away as a fake –> ship uses dmg con –> come back and flood the ship
Reichskeks not to mention being targeted by 2 cvs playing together.
even better 😀
All I wish is BBs were less impossible to destroyer in cruisers or gunboat dd
@7:00. Dive bomber squadron flies through flak and successfully bombs you without losing a single plane. Hilarious. He came back around for another pass
@ 7:43 and completely misses but you shoot down ONE plane at @7:52.
Torpedo squadron flies in at @8:50 and delivers the package and you manage to shoot down ONE torpedo bomber. Meanwhile your cat fighter engages them and shoots down five @9:06.
Enemy CV deploys fighter support for his bombers which then comes under attack from your AA @9:16. Loses a few planes
Rocket squadron comes in @10:22 and no kills (cat fighter was on cooldown).
Rocketeers come back @10:45 and again, no kills.
Bombers come in for another hello @12:03. Cat fighter gets 6 kills when it makes a 2nd pass. No more cat fighter charges…..
17 kills in 12:30 …. in a Montana against 2 CV’s of planes. 17 plane kills by a Montana….. let that sink in.
Only time you got any decent number of kills I think was when your cat fighter was launched and friendlies were also close by deploying their cat fighters. Your CV’s couldn’t help you because they literally have to fly near enemy squadrons then deploy their fighter consumable. So basically, if they keep this as-is when it goes live, all those IJN BB’s stuck with spotting planes are completely screwed since their AA are usually anemic and have no catapult fighters. Any ship without a cat fighter are basically food for CV’s.
Can’t wait…
As it stands, for example, the Lyon with it’s 90+ AA is about as useful as the Normandie with their 20+ AA because neither have cat fighters. I knew this was already bad from Fara’s vids but at least here we can see it from a non-CV’s perspective and it’s worse than we imagined. This is a train wreck waiting to happen if they stay on this course.
The way the AA works right now is that damage is applied evenly to all the planes of the squad… THEN it starts taking them out very quickly, starting from the ones you ARE NOT attacking with, to finally destroying your attack squad. It’s totally and absolutely RETARDED. First, yit should be like before… Each plane, one by one, taking damage and getting shutdown. And it should start with the active attack planes in your squad, replacement taking their place as they get shot down but with “panic accuracy” for 3 seconds or something.
This would fix AA.
and now imagine my poor Grozovoi that could quite heavily impact a T10 carrier when 1/2 AA specced. It has basically NO AA in the rework …
+MeKanism people seem to forget that this new gameplay makes CVs players able to perma flood and fire Battleships.. That means it’s even easier for a cv to harrass and annoy Battleships taking out completely the fun of the game.
WG just rebalance the RTS system for fucks sake…
omg omg omg he only shot down 17 planes. yeah. while sailing alone against a midway and a shokaku focusing him. let THAT sink in. 2 CVS could not do more than 1/2 damage to notser, despite his very lazy sailing. is it sinking in yet? the AA was bad, the strike potential of the CVs was worse.
+dareios rossos that’s more the inability of the CVs to effectively strike him … I noticed 2 torpedo hits from one drop (one wing attack. not the entire squadron), 2 rocket attacks and 2 bomb attacks … that’s it. the CVs did not even try properly yet he was constantly shooting at aircraft … the CV players will get better at landing attacks as they get the hang out of the new system however he has no way to improve his AA.
sector switching at highest tier is uselles planes flying faster than jets… and you switching for 15 sec…. and infinity amount of planes… is horrible idea… and full AA does nothing… basically theres no point playing anything AA based because its doing no damage
it does some dmg but the planes literally have to hold their course during their attack run in the face of all your AA. During one of the last torpedo runs on Notser, you can see the yellow damage numbers floating above the ONE plane his AA actually shot down only because he was flying directly into his broadside (so maximum AA guns on his planes) to line up the shot.
As it stands now, the ship AA is less effective than non-manual controlled secondaries (which is terrible already). We can only hope it’s this way because of the test server, but who knows…. wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the direction they want to take just to encourage ppl to play more CV’s — by making ship AA nigh useless.
Ye I think the infinate plane thing is to much and there is no felling of risk so the risk to reward feeling is not there. That’s what made Cv fun that risk and reward system in RTS but with yr entire air group in the air you will get Deplaned very fast with a Worcester around.. They can give limited planes but it should be at least double it was in RTS per cv
This CV rework is a half baked Cluster Fudge of Screwiness and Bovine Scatology… Who in the Frack wanted this steaming pile of 8.0 Feces?
irony that in WOT’s 8.X they did a massive nerf on arty and hurt the game. WG has learned NOTHING
I blame 12 year old console peasants.
+Revkor And despite being nerfed, arty became even more annoying thanks to the stun system. Same is going on here with carriers. They’re less powerful, but much more annoying thanks to the AA nerfs and unlimited plane capacity.
Nothing new, was that Way since the first Test Round. Just a rushed rework to fit on Consoles. As one of those “evil unicum CVs” I’ve made multiple Posts over all 3 Test Rounds explaining to the tiniest Bit what will go wrong / wont work out, and AA was right up there from Day 1. It doesn’t work good enough to defend you , expecially when the CV knows how to dodge the Flak Clouds. But so far nobody seem to care, and now Im sitting here, pumping out 300k+ dmg rounds on the Test Server ^^ Honestly, I think it’s a lost Cause and it would be the best to take out CVs for now as this rework will kill the Gameplay Experience in Random.
This rework makes CVs actually even stronger than before since they have infinite planes, can perma flood and perma fire Battleships and cruisers and don’t have an opponent cv trying to stop them since they can’t control fighter planes anymore.
This stupid “rework” is just a PvE game that looks boring as fuck, and the best is about to come: the refund for mine and your CVs is a joke.
Carriers get unlimited planes but ships don’t get unlimited scout planes. Carriers get unlimited planes but ships have AA guns that can be destroyed. The Sector control looks stupid and doesn’t seem to help. You know WG could save themselves and the player base a lot of work an grief by simply Removing Carriers from the game.
+Filip -F torpedoes are a valid argument, but shells and fuel? Even the worst destroyer in game was able to sail thousands of nautical miles without refueling.
And these ships carried more than enough shells in their magazines for a typical game of WoWS
Ships can also get our main guns distoyed and cvs get planes replaced ? this game is getting F up
They should make CVs AI controlled depending which cap points you control is where they will attack hardest. Add subs, fin.
Sector control is weak on BBs, but it does a lot more on small ships. I put a good 10 or 12 hours into the beta. It’s funny that I was actually able to shoot down a decent number of planes with the Khaba.
+Jared Whalen which makes no sense. A BB technically had the largest AA battery amount. They now will get the least effective AA envelope. Because logic.
On 2:35 you can see early version of Phalanx system – it didn’t shoot single bullets but whole airplanes.
To be blunt, I think they’re fucking up their own game. I mean that’s on a Monty, which is one of the highest rated AA ships. Imagine on something that doesn’t have as good AA and then may or may not spec for it on top of that. I get what they wanted to do, I just think they went about doing it entirely the wrong way. I think they should have found a way to keep RTS, but reduce the skill gap somehow between purple players and not so good players. As someone who is pretty terrible with CV’s in the RTS system (just don’t have the cpm to be good and have a hard time judging fighter strafes), I’m not that excited to be on either side of the new CV’s
They fucked up WoT so really they are keeping to their standards
I agree, to be honest, after seeing this i cant find the motivation to invest more time into the game
Besides the fact that WG never intented to rework the RTS system, they should have fixed their damn UI in the first place. This would have been so much more helpful. No more “oh look, the enemy squad is perfectly in my strafing corridor but nothing happens” or “huh. i wonder why the squadron literally warped a good chunk towards my strafing fighters”.
Fuck this clicks-per-minute-bullshit, fix the damn laggy, buggy UI, lower the damage and make the different CV branches comparable and competetive = cv rework done. But no, they had to fuck it really up. Mark my words, the CV rework will fail – one way or another.
+Iain Ansell they could have also put fuel so that perma spotting of dds wouldn’t be possible anymore.. But hey, it’s Wargaming, they like to fuck it up somehow
AA ratings are changing for all ships
Countless hours spent on CV’s (smallest sector of players) because of OP issues, so you nerf ship AA…? Don’t push this out guys until you fix it or do more testing, please!
It’s pretty hard to test balancing with the correct enviroment. Testserver are full with people, who want test the CV, so there is no realistic scenario. The testing on the live server would help a lot. But actually, it feels like only the T10 CVs are pretty strong
This system will make it very easy to stop playing. There is nothing good about it.
and i hoe that does happen, maybe they will finally learn a lesson after the shit hits their wallets
Two things so far that I’m aghast at is:
1. How quickly the planes cross the map.
2. They have RPF.
I won’t be playing DD for a long time with this meta.