Loading...Hello guys, today we discuss what I believe will be the biggest issue the game will have to overcome in 2023: burnout. Enjoy!
Discord: https://discord.gg/P5aR2PzVXB
Music:
Ross Rowley:
https://music.apple.com/us/artist/ross-rowley/1524460114
https://www.rossrowley.com
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Outro Music: Stranger Think- C418
Have a replay?
Music: Stranger Think- C418
Issues to consider aka: fat chance of getting solved:
-Excessive means of spotting with ship lines that have strike aircraft.
-Superships introduction to more tech trees leads to power creep in their main random battle game mode.
-That degrades the value of tier 9 premiums.
-Aggressive monetization of boosters and flags.
-Failure to keep older ship lines competitive, this includes premiums.
-Feature creep
-Participation of unbalanced content aka Subs, CVs and Superships in more game modes.
@The Atlanta Fisherman Not if you’re in a Dutch ship…
Does anyone who used to play WoT see any similarities here? I do. I stopped playing WoT years ago due to this disregard for any type of game canon. WoWs is now undergoing the same type of B.S. Magic spells (sorry, Command orders or whatever), and laws of physics that make a naval battle game, even an admittedly arcade version, look like a phone game.
@Steven Wiederholt Zao used to be my favorite tier 10. There was a space event where you basically had reskinned tier 10’s. I fell in love with the Zao. Through events I had the legendary module before the ship. Ground out the legendary commander also. Loved the ship. Then they nerfed the legendary module and power crept it to hell. She is a port queen now. The St Vincent now fills the ambush/kiting/late game push role for me now.
@Rodney Jones This is a feeling i have had, even in ranked. Im still a newer player less than 1000 battles played combined. My stats looks bad if you look at them overall.
But if i look att the last month ive improved and is soon above average. But i feel the same. The game give you teams you win whit a couple of times, then fate gives you the worst scum on the server for a couple of matches. Im close to 51% in ranked now and 49 in randsom up from like 43. I know stats dosent always tell how good a player is. But its still the shit you get in youre face a newer player. “look at that red player”. Well yes but there is plenty of reasons that i can be red whitout being a bad player. I have killed a lot better players. FOr example when grinding tech three lines first time. Not all ships is compeditive. Wich will dump youre ratings.
Its funny, they never thought of adding unique upgrades for T10 ships which are years old now. The campaign mechanic. They want power creep so people buy new ones. Unbearable state.
The RNG combined with matchmaking in this game is the main problem ! It gets super disgusting throwing salvo after salvo on a non moving broadside ship only to see the shots land port and starboard and then when you show broadside for few seconds your ship gets free ticket for port .
The RNG is disgusting. Its just gambling. They take all the skill out the game.
THIS!!! RNG has gotten so inconsistent that World of Warships is not much a game of skill, rather a game of the dice roll. Players will bark out about poor aiming when their shots hit perfectly, while yours drifts everywhere. MM and terrible team play in randoms (on top of bad RNG) made me just walk away. My time is expensive and I won’t waste it playing this game anymore until WG addresses many of these issues about RNG (such as MM, gunnery issues and shell contact damage {you know, then your pen that does over pen damage}, ect.). Been playing off and on for over 6 years. I don’t even know why they have KOTS when it’s not about skill. It’s all just RNG stupidity. RNG IS the most broken thing is World of Warships.
This game has no matchmaking.
Matchmaking puts players of similar skill together in a match. WoWs doesn’t have that.
Its the same in Legends. What some of the veterans suspect is different groups of players have different rng tables i.e. if you’re a new or bad player you have better “luck” both offensively and defensively to “balance” good players by giving you a chance, or several, not to be dev struck 3 minutes into the match as a consequence to your own bad gameplay.
This is much easier, I would say lazier, approach then having to teach people how to play the game along with devising a skill-based matchmaking system – things that would greatly improve the game experience but aren’t things WG can easily memorize. This is why, in Legends, the store has more content than the game and they still haven’t fixed that annoying snap aim bug.
I get a lot of shit for being a co-op only player, 26,000 battles…yet I see more and more “superplayers” with their super-ships flooding co-op and screwing up matchmaking.
There is an easy way for wg to see what people want. And see who is playing and how long they have been playing the game. Make a new game play. Have ships from only a few years ago mode and leave the new game style. Allow the players to pick if the want to deal with subs and super ships or not. Then they have the data and the account info of all players and that will tell them what the players want.
My issues as a Open-Beta era player from worst to most benign:
– The game has gotten B O R I N G. Passive play, gimmicks, and no real major alterations to how the game plays all contribute to the feeling that the game hasn’t moved a muscle in nearly 5 years.
– Superships and the further decay of high tier meta into long range engagements with zero dynamism.
– Submarines adding an unfun, impossible to balance class of boats that essentially serve the same headache that the pre-patch CVs had several years ago; you’re either trivial to deal with and a waste of a team slot, or you are a god of war. They may not statistically be more or less dangerous than the other classes, but they’re certainly the least interactive to fight against.
– The Battle Pass is redundant and unnecessary and bribes you with extra goodies to pay for a tier 5-6 premium’s worth of doubloons to earn the right to get the extra goodies it offers. Buying progress on the battle pass is almost as expensive as dockyard events but with lesser awards since at least the dockyard doesn’t demand you pay up for extra rewards per level progress.
– Why did they remove flags-as-rewards for honorary and heroic achievements? You didn’t even get that many (x10 flags per achievement every day) and they still felt compelled to remove them. They are available for purchase, at least, but their prices are usually unreasonable; either millions of credits for no more than 20 flags, or thousands of bits of coal.
– Accumulating coal has never been more difficult. There are some bright spots during events like the Anniversary and New Years, but the methods to get coal have not changed since their introduction back in 2016-2017 while essential goods available for coal _have_ such as unique modules, special captains, economic boosters, and the aforementioned flags. I say they are essential because they confer a significant enough of a gameplay advantage that to not use those flags is to disadvantage yourself. The supply of coal hasn’t really changed that much, while the demand for coal has, creating a shortage at least on my end. I haven’t been able to purchase a coal ship since October. Prior to the flags-for-coal change, I was able to get 2 coal ships in a year, now I’m limited to one, which is a shame considering some of them are really good. And this is barely taking into account having to purchase economic boosters (which, mind you, are available _exclusively_ for coal outside of special containers) so you can at least earn more credits/XP/Whatever to buy your other resources.
– Economic Bonuses are very noobie hostile. I’m glad that they do at least get tons of them as rewards for completing campaigns in-game but even then it makes playing without them far more tedious and time-consuming than they should ever be. Long-time and dedicated players such as myself probably aren’t feeling those adverse effects as intensely as casuals and noobies but this is going to be a huge issue as player retention becomes a thing.
– Absolutely extortionate prices for superships. I do not own a single supership available right now and that’s because most of them cost double or 2.5x what a tier 10 ship is worth (which is roughly 20 mil excluding CVs). I’d bet that we’d all be okay with them nerfing the prices down to like 30 mil in exchange for them being -25-40% less viable.
– Credits are in a unrelated but similar case of limbo. I have only recently gotten out of the credits gap since I just bought my 32nd Tier 10 and no longer feel compelled to purchase any more techline ships for at least the next 3 months so I can just stockpile credits for as long as I like. That does not, however, detract from the fact that it is very difficult to play frequently enough to earn enough credits to purchase _a_ tier 10 ship while also keeping your flag supplies in check. Unless you play monstrous games that average around 500k-1 mil per match, it may take you anywhere between 5-7 matches to earn enough credits to buy more signal flags. _And likely in doing so, you’d have burned not just a signal flag you’re looking for at the moment, but 5-7 others as well!_
I’d like to think myself a patient and reasonable person and I’ve put up with some of WoWS and WG’s worst habits since I was a World of Tanks player back in 2011, so it pains me to say that this has been a year that has _very much_ tested my patience with WoWS and WeeGee as a whole. It’s not a complete dealbreaker and I will keep playing, but suffice it to say that tiers 9-10 have been accumulating dust after I got the Christmas containers and I mostly play in the mid-tiers now just because they’re more fun. Submarines are definitely encroaching on even that place however, but at least the matchmaking only ever stuffs 2 of them per team. WeeGee I _sincerely_ hope you can turn this ship around this coming year.
i bet ur a dd player..farming ur own bbs and crying when they dont push so u have bait
I’m still playing after 7 years and I sometimes question why. The game has changed so much since 2015, and not always for the better.
well it’s mostly for the worse 😀 with the exception of graphics
I would love to move on but there isn’t a game like this on the market so as pissed I get at the game sometimes, I keep playing.
I was in a match last night with three submarines and two CVs on each side. That ladies and gentlemen is why there is burn out. Unplayable!
I think I was in that game. The worst Ive seen was 2 CVs and 4 subs no DDs.
@Mike Morgan Me too, and it was unplayable. In another game, playing a CV (which I rarely do) my random had only ONE ship per team, and both were CVs!
Am getting, maybe not burnout, but a little pissed with what WG thinks the player base would go for. SUBs are my biggest gripe. If WG insists that T6 sub (T 6 being ships like the FUSO or NEW MEXICO, built prior to 1924) having Homing torps, then I want to see more in the lines of ASW. Increase the Damage Cons and lower cooldowns of the DCs; give us more in the way of countermeasures. ALL DDs need hydro, at least ‘allied’ ships need the FOXER to troll said homing torps off course and the HEDGEHOG. Sorry am a bit of a purest when it comes to historical accuracy (i.e. no CVs in a battle-line).
I have over 11k matches, I’ve been playing since the Beta times and I found out that it’s more enjoyable to go for lower tier matches. Because you don’t have to deal with such BS ships like T10, super ships and BS subs… T8 and below if you know what you’re doing at least you can impact the game without the fear of getting dumped on by T11 or a sub. When I lose it doesn’t make me upset because unlike T10 and above there isn’t a simpleton who managed to buy a T10, super ship or got to T10 without even learning anything and don’t know what to do but mess my playing experience. I suggest people go for lower tiers. Bonus to going lower tiers is less expenses and more variety of ships with different play styles.
The issue is that low tier players are much, much worse. There’s also tons of issues like lack of radar, abusive overmatch, etc. Most players don’t enjoy low tier which is why they actively move out of it.
@dzello I dont agree, there is more bad playes in T10 and superships. It is in T5-8 you grow and get good at the game. And you do this whitout a bunch of gimmics as radar, wich on other hand you get att T8.
@kroppsomvandling It wasn’t an opinion, it’s a fact. Good players stay high tier much more which leads to low tier being significantly easier. Low tier players are massively worse which is why you always take into account low tier games when checking winrate because it inflates it.
Playing below tier 8 as a high tier player is considered ”seal clubbing”. The gap between tier 9-10 and the rest is enormous.
@dzello I belive you need a reality check. Most of the good old players that have every T10 ship and superships and premiums like to play T7-T8 couse its more fun, and no super CV. So yes ther might have been a time when you were right, but that time is not now. When WG have destroyed T10. So no, there is a lot of just as skilled players in T7-T8 and so on. And just couse players have and play T10, dosent make them skilled. I have “gaped” a lot of players that have 10k battles and more in both high and low tiers. So the skill is more even and distributed between tiers.
@kroppsomvandling Nope, not even remotely close. Good players are SIGNIFICANTLY more inclined to play tier 9 and 10 and do not like going down tier. Tier 1 to 4 is often bot games outside of the new player matchmaker, 5 to 8 is mostly lower skilled players who are new to the game or bad at the game.
Again, this is very well known by now. You can even see the playrate bump in high tier gameplay specifically because they don’t go back down. It’s not even a debate, you can see easily see how stats are inflated by low tier. When an average high tier player goes low tier, his winrate goes up by 10%.
Wargaming is also very aware of this which is why they try to avoid releasing low tier ships premiums that are too strong because that leads to seal clubbing (high tier players going down to tier 5 or 6 and smashing bad players).
It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.
P.S.: Having 10k battles means nothing. That just means they play a lot, not that they’re good. Winrate is the measure of skill in a random matchmaking game.
The last straw for me was the crates this year. I learned that “B” ships are actually considered a different ship, simply because of the black camo. Needless to say I already had a “B” ship and I got it’s standard camo counter part, which is utterly useless. WGing refused to replace it with either dubs or a different random ship. We are talking virtual items but their utter tone deafness to help a customer be happy is mindboggling.
100% agree. Had this happen to me with Atlanta from a super container.
Funny thing is you can make any ship a “blackship” with Shadow Lurker camo… 😛
As a Vet of this game… I can say. Yes! I do go through burn out. Taken several breaks through out the year. But I always come back and hit it hard. Sometimes you just need a break shooting at boradsides Lol Often play CIV 6 to relax my swashbuckler ways ! xD
I’ve been playing World of Warships since open beta. I play very little now. You certainly know your subject. I would say the super ships have spoiled High tier play for me. I can live with the submarines, but it is very annoying trying to chase one down with a destroyer that is only two knots faster than the sub while the sub is submerged! It’s also hard to drop a depth charge pattern while you’re being shot at by every surface ship on the enemy side. Your point about gimmicky ships is also spot on.
I remember a game where I was playing Prussian, and got targeted by both the sub and the cv, and there was no friendly ships on my flank, and no surface ships I could really damage either.
For me to come back, they have to
1) remove subs into their own game mode or balance them instead of balans them
2) same as above with superships.
3) unrework the cvs. Introduce airplane fueling to limit squadron flight time, have a squadron cooldown after returning to cv, and the ability to detonate cvs hit during a plane cooldown
4) stop with the rampant scamming and monetization and taking advantage of the ccs.
5) prioritize less on fake premium ships and gimmicks for tech lines.
6) rework he and fires to encourage aggressive play.
For all of these, Weegee has to pull their heads out of their a$$es and admit they made mistakes, but that ain’t happening because they think they won’t be held accountable or they just have to lay low for a few months for the heat to die down.
I started playing this game in 2015 and nowadays there are many days that I won’t touch the game. I can’t remember the last time I paid for anything in game. It’s just not worth it to me anymore. I finally came to my senses and realized that WeeGee doesn’t give a rip. Like many of us it was the historical nature of the game that pulled me in but when they started adding paper ships and crazy gimmicks my interest waned to a point that I’m not willing to buy anything. Out of over 150 ships in my port I’m probably only playing a dozen of them in a reasonably regular rotation everything luck I will never own a super ship. WeeGee is most concerned with their bottom line to the point that they are blind to the fact that the people who are willing to put money into the game are the ones they are ticking off. Being wise in their own eyes they are ignoring the plea of the oldest part of the community. Something as simple as instituting a line of sight nerf to hydro and radar would make me feel a lot better about the game But since they don’t care, I’ll continue enjoying it as I’m able as free to play and my wallet will stay closed to tight. I usually hover around $300 million credits so I’m not hurting for game funds. And if I don’t have the dubs to change equipment or captain skills I play it as I’ve got it currently until I get some free stuff. I mean it sincerely and from the bottom of my heart when I tell wargaming to go pound sand.
Match Maker – as someone that has put seven years into the game, I am seeing co-op games being full of players, because they are tired of the complete imbalance that most Random battles are. It is not just ‘complete x mission’, these are folks that seem to mostly be playing co-op as their primary mode now. It has been an issue for a solid three years and WG won’t even acknowledge that the match maker is even a problem, that one side battles are happening, etc.
So its not just me noticing this. MM is completely drugged fucked at times. The other night for example I was in a BB and from about 7km I couldn’t get a pen on a broadside Atlanta, it bounced all my fucking shells. What a joke. None of our team could do any real damage to the other and we lost all sunk without them losing a ship. There are so many battles like that now its just a joke.
Thanks as always Sea Lord. I’m playing through the holiday season and then I’m going to take a break for a bit, even though I have premium time burning. Still find the game fun but it’s just not the tactical experience I want out of a game anymore. CVs and subs have ruined the balance of the game that allowed one to thoughtfully play – now you have to frantically deal with too many things at once… and I’m too darn old for that; too frustrating to be as fun anymore. I’ll be looking for something else but will still play occasionally.
I have to agree with the new players/old players retention issues. I have been in (daily mind you) since Open Beta (July 2015). That’s 7+ years. I never liked CVs, RTS first, then the current model, but learned to live with them. I was vehemently opossed to subs, and still dislike them intensely since intro into the tech Tree. What really bugs me now is that in the old days, to be able to play high tiers (say T8+) you needed to spend time, and learn. Now *anybody* can get a T10. I see inane questions asked by T9 and T10 players ((Premiums usually), like they have played barely 10 games in PVP and have no clue about what to do. I have seen a lot of [Richelieu] Rentals in Coop too. that have no clue and are as bad – if not worse – as bots. Note this is not elitist, but common sense. Come on WG!
Potential solution to the submarine problem, remove the homing torpedoes and make it so DDs and a few specialized light cruisers are the hard counter to them as they were IRL.
I quite the game two years ago for exactly the reasons you are highlighting. CVs, subs, etc. I used to love this game and was a unicum/superinicum level player in a good clan. It was clear to me that Wargaming ignores the player base and is hell bent on making the game worse. I watch your vids still just to see what is going on with the game and usually confirming my decision to leave.