Loading...Hey guys! Today we talk about the recent changes to submarines! Enjoy!
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:05 Surface Ship POV
9:11 Submarine POV
16:33 Overall Thoughts
In WW2, subs were essentially stealthy, but slow torpedo DDs
Exactly.
In WW2 subs could submerse for 48 hours
@@MrSplodezAnd go at about 7 kts.
now they are not stealthy slow easy kills for everything.
@@gregorturner9421They are still pretty stealthy. Way more than a DD.
In terms of turret rotation and locking on the bearing, that’s all fine but what I’d really like is a button that returns the turrets to the fore and aft (harbour) position, which would be handy to reduce the time to train the mounts to Port or stbd afterwards. To me this would be a really simple mod.
We asked for this during closed testing, the dev’s didn’t like the idea it would be ‘to hard to implement’.
Bots in the training rooms return to that position (on console) when they have nothing spotted. I imagine they have it as a setting somewhere
I completely agree. I also wouldn’t mind a way to independently control my main turrets, or at least fore and aft. Just something to where I can lock them to one side as a protection on the side I’m not really paying attention to. That way, if I get flanked, I can quickly switch control to the other side to get some shots off quickly while the other turrets either stay in place or swing around to help.
@@MarvinWestmaas I’m surprised the Devs think that a fore-and-aft button would be so complex…all it is is locking the turrets in the fore-and-aft position until it’s unlocked…surely that’s just a few more lines of programming code. I think they’re just putting it in the “too hard” basket. Pity though, because many players would love the feature.
I literally told in the comments under on of recent videos, that wg will make it worse. It was video where streamer was really happy about changes. Keep believing, mate!
Crtl + X locks your turrets in the direction they’re facing. Hit that then go to ASW to not have your turrets move. You can also change that hotkey so it’s quicker. I have it on my mouse.
couldn’t you theoretically put it on the same button as ASW?
@@yoshiegg95 I think it would still move your main guns unless they were locked. Not sure though.
They still need to reduce both the underwater & periscope depth speeds. What coal ship should I buy next, F Sherman or the Salem? I play DD’s, CL’s & BB’s. I have the Agir, Axuma, Black, Groningen, Kurfurst, and Napoli. Advice please.
Salem is way too close to Des Moines unless you have a ton of coal to waste
Go Sherman but Salem is fun too.
Mate, you can STILL shotgun, idk where the sentiment of ‘not being able to shotgun anymore’ comes from, but shotgunning now just happens from more than 3km out, WITH improved torp damage. It’s an overall buff.
You cant easily shotgun DD´s. Everything else is a fair game, just like WG intended.
You can’t pop up from 2km and blast someone out of the water anymore
Shot gunning from 2km or 3km is still shot gunning. They get a map of their own where nobody else can come. Tho they do have less torpedo’s then torpedo destroyer, 6 in front and 4 in back is 10 total, with reload of 45 seconds they can launch 20 in 90 seconds, Shimikaze can launch 15 in about 110 seconds so guess sub is better there too. Better concealment, great periscope speed. No my opinion stays the same at this moment, WG created a monster which they can’t get rid of anymore, there is almost none interaction from surface ships to subs, and wargaming don’t want to listen to the player base about any real nerves that are needed to equal the battlefield. Lower periscope speed, all hydroacoustic search show subs and less pings and/or ping doesn’t last that long. Cruisers and battleships should all have bombers against subs and range of ping equals range of planes !!
@@sealordmountbatten True but you can at 3km
@@bebeandjohnnotsonomadiclif5287 It wouldn’t surprise me if they push it out to 3.5km or 4km, its a good start for the end of shotgunning as we know it
As someone who played subs quite a bit, I don’t really have much of a beef with the efforts to make it harder to shotgun. Trying to pop up inside of 3 km was always a very high-risk maneuver anyway. Just get close and shoot from a little farther out than before, and the results will likely be almost as they were before. My real problem now is the fact that subs are now totally defenseless against a ship that happens to show up unexpectedly. And that seems to happen quite a bit since most DD’s can out spot many subs, even when the sub is at periscope depth. If at periscope depth, you can’t even see the DD until he is well inside 3 km. And as soon as you see him, he sees you. In the past, if I had an idea where the DD was, maybe I could get my boat pointed in the right direction so that when we saw each other, I could shoot some unguided homing torpedoes, and nail him before he got me (I used homing torps because of the shorter arming distance and the greater speed. No ping because there wasn’t time, and the target was too close for homing anyway.). Even then, my success rate was less than 50%. Now, my chances are exactly 0.0%, unless the DD has virtually no health left anyway.
What I think would be an equitable solution to this is to remove the short range penalty from homing torpedoes. Those were seldom used for shotgun attacks anyway, since alternative torpedoes deal much greater damage. And it would at least give the sub something of a fighting chance when in a defensive situation.
valid point, but I just wonder what WG is thinking about what the sub role should be. I think there is something to say for subs not being the stealthier version of a DD early game, because DDs have full plate with early spotting, DD duels, CV avoidance and generally surviving getting spotted first and enemy team has nothing better to shoot at. The short detection range of subs add to that problem, because it is very dangerous for a DD to do a depth charge run in front of an early game push. Maybe untangling DDs from the submarine duel helps, because DDs have so many other things on there to-do-list besides engaging the submarine.
WG claimed subs where intended to smoke out passive predictable pew pew BBs, but in the current DD vs sub early game, the opposite occurs and many teams stay camping and blob together until one team is able to punch through the screen, get the spot and dominate the map.
The maps are designed with flank opportunities and a center location where a duke out can happen, if the DDs are forced to die alone or blob in spawn with the team (and run with them when an actual non-retarded push is established), the game is decided by which team BB flank blinks first with very little a DD can do to delay.
In my opinion, submarines capabilities are not the real problem, but the fact their perceived capabilities reinforce lower experience, non confident players to think their best option is to make the worst choice and run (far longer and farther than a team can recover from). Any game that ends up with 4 BBs alive at the end, fuming their team is the worst, has a reason because they allowed the enemy team to run down their escorts instead of absorbing the share of firepower that their designed role is (why BBs are the class that ALWAYS has HP restore).
WG has allowed the general playerbase to deviate so far away from their original gameplay concept, that they cannot interpreted if game changes improve or devolve the games style, and making games utterly unpredictable and increasingly more frustrating.
if they continue the test idea for unified air spotting ranges would effect subs quite a bit as they use air spotting for periscope depth as it would allow subs to periscope spot all DD’s from 4km cruisers at 5km and BB at 6km or so unless im remembering the ranges wrong (or at least what russian numbers are testing)
@@Tuning3434 you’ve missed the point. its not DD’s killing subs, its BB’s with ASW planes and the ping is a death sentence now. you get to periscope depth, line up and fire your homing torps, then ping. next second every ship in 10km with ASW aircraft knows where you are and where you are going and you will be killed straight away. all WG is doing is padding ship players kill stats with easy targets as all the stealth abilities of the submarine have been nerfed so hard they might as well just take the class out of the game.
@@gregorturner9421Copium much? I just stated there is nothing really wrong with the sub performance perse, except that perceived performance is reeking havoc with how teams function if filled with average, not so confident players.
I think there is something to say to not have DDs be the FIRST line of contact with subs, because DDs are not really that suitable for anti sub warface in the early game, and BBs should just be a little bit more active instead of being perfect targets for submarines. In a non submarine match players need to have map and spot awareness to have a clue on where DDs are, even if not sighted. Why should submarines be the class that can just only rely on performance instead of players having to rely heavily on map awareness?
Sorry, but this narrative sounds a bit more like ‘Reee, WG gib me good ship, because I am not at all interested in becoming a better player or invested in playing better with my team’.
Nothing personal against you, but this game was originally intended as a team game, and every patch it is becoming even more free-for-all than a coop game. As a longer time player, I can honestly say playing matches have devolved into mostly a challenge against your own frustration levels, cause games are decided so much by which team flinches first followed by 15 minutes of frustrating hard work to try to recover. Most matches just feel pointless now, because of how little players can do when flanks completely fall apart just because spotting advantages by the other team and the overinflated fears for a submarine.
@@Tuning3434 i agree, i play DD’s and subs when im not playing ops, I play ops mostly because i got as you said frustrated working to spot the enemy only to watch the flank either run away or get sunk resulting in the slow painful chase in the sub as the cruisers and dds outrun you until you run out of underwater time and just have to wait for the end.
The underwater DD thing, know what counters stealthy DDs in game? The fact their torps typically take nearly two minutes to reload, something none of the subs have. The patch did little to the core problem of subs in the game; that surface ships have to stop everything they are doing to deal with a nearby sub. In addition that CVs (second most hated ship) gets a completely free pass on dealing with subs, just like their damage control.
Well if you think about it, given the small number of torpedo tubes, it should be pretty similar DPM no?
Not if, after the damage buff, the torps are doing nearly the same damage as a Shima. Faster reload, can easily hide, and still drop torps at close range making it harder to avoid. Doubt we are going to agree on this topic mate. 🙂
@malguskerensky
Obviously you’re not a sub player
@@malguskerenskysubmarine torps should honestly do much more damage than destroyers
These changes were great for ranked. With such small teams, it’s no longer fearsome to just charge down the sub and take care of it once you know its location. No shotgunning is great.
The one thing that gets to me when hunting submarine as a dd is:
The cockroach is right underneath you, you drop the depth charges = splash damage, splash damage, splash damage, splash damage and it takes like 10 of these to the submarine die
Even worse is that wg released a upgrade that reduces the depth charge damage that submarines take
And then they wonder why the player numbers are dropping
The heck it does. I play subs, if 3-4 drop above me and I’m dead.
Come on you just have to sail approximatively were the sub is and shit grenades, and the sub is dead XD. Seriously, i don t think there are easier target than submarines
@@guigo4479yeah, sail just above the sub, but you remain a surface ship you know that? So the entire enemy team is gonna shoot the DD, not mentioning the fact that subs are faster than fcking torpedoes
the ping change is probably actually the biggest change. there’s hardly any variance to it anymore. the old ping could have popped up anywhere from 0-1.5km’s away from where the sub was. now the ping pops up between 0-200m. basically smack right on top of the sub. so there’s no more lottery with launching asws. if you see the ping the whole time you can see when the sub turns too, the little crescents will start moving differently before the ping ends to show the sub turning. once you get used to it, it’s almost as good as just seeing the sub on sub surv.
edit: i agree with the last thing where subs can’t really fight other subs anymore. cause at long ranges it’s VERY easy for subs to dodge enemy sub torps. you have 3 dimensions of dodging possible. turning left or right, and diving or surfacing. it’s very hard to land torps on subs when you’re far away unless they’re not good. so either they should make homing torps lock on stop closer to the sub, or remove the 3 km dmg reduction for sub v sub underwater, or maybe even just sub v sub period. cause right now sub v sub boils down to which teammates are paying more attention. not to mention sometimes you get teammates who just hate subs and decide they’d rather the enemy sub win over them. i don’t get the logic but it happens. your own teammates will give your position away by constantly sending their asw on top of you. when you spot the enemy sub they won’t send their asw to the enemy sub. so you’re left to 1v1 the sub but now the dmg is too low against them, the perfect engagement distance now is like 3.3 that’s when it’s hard to dodge sub torps but that’s a really narrow band. plus depending on your sub your sub surv might only be 6km’s. which leaves a 3km band where your torps are effective. the enemy sub is smart dodge the first rack and just close in the distance.
oh yea, there’s that soviet sub that gets 9km sub surv. that’s pretty much the best sub to fight other subs now. especially with the new module to reduce prep and cooldown of sub surv by 20%. you can have your sub surv up 2 minutes before the enemy sub gets theirs if they didn’t take the module or have the captain skill. the cooldown gets so short it feels like you can pop sub surv every 30 seconds.
My BB vs subs…sit way back and fire main guns when air spots them. Shades of the movie Under Siege come to mind but from way further out. With the goofy sighting rules in this game, it’s like I look out the bridge and see the sub as if I were near them. Ships spotted by others should only appear on mini map.
I was in a brawl last night and I dropped ASW right on top of an I56 that was like 4 or 5 km away but since it still takes 12+ seconds even at close range I didn’t even scratch him and I ate 30k+ dmg
At 12:50 you mention complaints of sub players over the loss of damage method. WG screwed this up, and everyone not playing sub is paying for it. I’m curious if the sub players complained the ships were too fast, or the homing torps which didn’t exist were too OP and the dive time isn’t a factor or ASW planes taking longer to reach the marker. Subs were a great tool if used in stealth or playing commerce raider but not a battle element. WG made this all up from scratch and it’s junk.
I really don’t understand the animus towards subs. The majority of games I play rarely is a sub being dominant
Thank you!!!
3:30 it does help , a bit less against the UK line and let no talk about the Alliance torp turning XD . now we just need Surcouf with lateral launcher on the back ( maybe unguided)
Let’s see. After two updates, subs are more maneuverable, take less damage from ASW, get a 15% increase to damage from dummy torps, and a 7% damage bonus from the new module. In exchange, they now just can’t shoot within 3 km, and ASW is slightly more frequent, and the ping indicator points their general direction (although it doesn’t actually mare their location). I fail to see how this makes things any better.
They got buffed because people kept losing with subs and gave them an awful win rate 😂
Just wanna see you play a tier 6 sub and gettin charged by a DD and not being able to do anything
@@guigo4479 I’d rather not see any subs at all! 🙂
so what they have done is crippled subs at less than 3km….so when you get charged and you are trying to fight them off you do eff all damage then die an inglorious depth. might as move that green line zone to 3km because its not worth using your torps inside that range. as for pinging, well now its a death sentence to use your sonar, might as well just do the job properly and make the torps acoustic like in reality and they home in on sound rather than sonar.
T6 Subs dont have alternativ torps. The playstyle is focused on homing torps. No buff from damage buff effected to this T6 line with the huge nerv on ping indicator for the subs. They are nearly dead now.
good
That’s great
I think they should allow each turret to target different shipps like they would be able to in real life, that would make playing against subs a little more balanced, have 1 or 2 turrets focused on them and the others on other ships within your guns range.