I’ve played them, tested them from the very first tests and come to an opinion on submarines. This isn’t final final, but its how I feel about them right now.
After playing multiple iterations I just don’t see them fitting into normal games right now. They need a lot more testing and more tweaks to get them in line. IMO they just need to be added to a new game mode like several others including myself has stated where there are two teams. One convoy hunters the other defenders. I’m just not seeing many staying around with their release when there are so many other things WG could work on or fix. After all of the fiascos from last year I’m still teetering on hanging around or not but I love this game (been playing since first closed beta) so let’s hope they make the right decisions because as it sits with only DDs being able to effectively kill them just throws so many flags up.
@GuyOnYouTube probl. depth chareges
They need to be made more realistic. A bit slower submerged, blind except for sonar pings, unless surfaced, and battery charging should be limited to periscope depth, fastest fully surfaced. Basically, what they need more than anything is a reason to surface so other ships can actually play against them.
I with there were some different game modes, period. Convoy escorting and raiding, coastal bombardment/defense, etc.
I’d also like to have an open real world map where we have to patrol and fight. Like if you choose to play Germany you’d mostly raid and patrol the North Sea and North Atlantic, as well as defend your coast, mostly against people who play Britain, but you could sail the whole world. But at this point I’m already talking about a whole separate game.
Let’s see how Warthunder’s naval branch turns out. Although their record is hardly better than Wargaming’s.
You actually want to turn the game into a more passive shitfest? Ok bro.
No wonder only CVs and DDs are playing. The battles are quickly fought and decided early, with a clash of DDs and subs. BBs can’t do jackshit in the battle, especially against subs, so no one is gonna take part in that as a punchbag for no reason. Probably everyone playing CVs have the same idea as I had: benefit from the double XP and 25% credit boost while blapping bots and fighting only tier VI, good and easy way to grind tier VI CVs, especially if you are stock. If WG has no idea how to add some kind of counter to every class, then they should scrap the idea and stop wasting time and resources in this awful mechanic.
All you need is just one ping and go a touch under periscope depth to dodge cannon fire and launch trops can do a fuck tonge of damage but there are slow so you have to go up close around 2km or less. as for the destroyers you go periscope depth and make the destroyers do a depth charge run fire tropedo point blank range. As for over submarines close to range 4km under one ping and fire.
von Hoff have little impact on me other than spotting me… are you daft? Being perma-spotted by a sub = dead DD. I’d call that a huge impact.
@rildain76 because most ships are bots and most subs are still inexperienced, people still haven’t fully realized how bad it can be. Being able to permaspot a DD, which are already overburdened with stuff to do, and be nearly untoucheable to other classes makes it a recipe for disaster.
@Anthrax absolutely. Submarines in their current form absolutely break the game. It won’t be world of warships anymore. It’ll be world of surface targets.
There is a reason nations retired BB’s.
I played Warspite almost exclusively in sub game. The sub BB interaction is broken.
The BB can do nothing verse a submerged sub that wants it dead. The 4 tightly spaced homing torps that are then launched are an unavoidable death sentence.
Yeah the slow BB’s have it ruff. I played a lot of Warspite as well at a much better time in PEF and the Normandie
@Fafnir Legion Pro Tip: Never rely on your teammates to do the right thing in WoWs pub matches. As for subs “molding” players into better teammates? Yeah, that will happen…
Did you like the fact that the cachalot submerged at max speed is faster than Your warspite? “Balanced” ain it….
Funny that you say that is a death sentence, even though BBs always dodge my homing torpedoes. Interesting….
Well the Warspite is 5 knots faster than the sub. Its easy to avoid the sub as long you have a general bearing on it. I also played Warspite a lot. I thought more about that it is boring that you do not have any way to fight the subs unless they try to cap and the like. ( When the Sub is submerges of course at least U-69 with 15kts there abouts)
Remember kids. All the Servers are being sacrificed for the Russian Server’s piss poor numbers of players.
At this point I’m playing ranked but after that I’m closing the game down until the next ranked battles. My clan is on the verge of breaking up at this point or we might stay our leader doesn’t know but I rather play WT in my IS-3 or Baguette Tank while waiting.
As soon as they hit random i go back to planetside 2 . They should stay on there own server but we all know they wont . Still at least im saveing money as i wont buy anything till i know whats to happen
They should have their own playlist – just like CVs should.
I have exclusively played tier 6 tech line BBs in sub games for the bonus xp and rewards (that Wargaming put in the game specifically to get ANYONE to play a BB in the mode). Conclusion: If Wargaming’s goal is to force their game into becoming a sniping war, put subs into Random Battles. Subs will mean BBs will never push (or they die). So, you stay at mid to long range (right now, outside of 10km, if a Cachalot is involved) until you know, from your team, that no sub is in your part of the map. Then… the BB can actually “play” the game. The job of all BBs and non-ASW Cruisers right now? Shoot anything close to your team’s subs. That way, your subs can farm damage and end up with almost all of the kills. If your team’s subs die, the game is effectively lost. Yes, this means the best division right now… would be a sub, a CV, and the most broken cruiser you can get your hands on.
It would be even more stagnant, boring than it is now. Not my WoWs anymore.
Great, you just made a case for the Slava.
Wargaming is suffering from sunken cost fallacy. They’ve gone to far to go back. Even if it kills the game.
@Francois424 There is…the chinese server.
Old cvs were fun, challenging and demanding. I refunded them all after the shitty rework. They just needed some tweaks like longer torp arming distance, AA stronger over time and limit spotting power to 1-2 squads
@Francois424 Most of the original solid players I knew left the game with the original big cv rework.
They really cannot see the big picture, they double down on the very things that stop this game from growing. WG cannot admit mistakes, cannot listen to feedback, and have an almost spiteful approach to developing this game. I really have never seen anything this crazy in gaming. Millions download this game only to quit, WG needs to fix whatever turns people off. I can tell you for sure, it wasn’t because there were no subs. In the end subs will cost them as much or more in lost revenue from current players.
@Versus Any new player i got to play the game quickly left… I barely play now and many others do or just left. They ruin the game by themselves
@Versus It’s an intentional approach that makes them lots of money. Most veterans don’t spend that much as they already have practically everything. The game has moved into a model of “churn” in which they want to attract as many new customers that hopefully open up their wallets before they quit.
It almost feels like WG has done something to you in the last 2 videos
*gasp* he may have changed his mind? He MuST hAvE sOLd oUt!
Not to knock Zoup, I think he has been an incredible asset to the community. That said he will go back and forth, one week with staunch criticism and the next week being totally optimistic. I think many of us realize the reality of this game’s development, but then reach a point where we have too much invested so we start rationalizing to keep playing. It is very sad because if WG could admit when they are wrong and use feedback from the players, this game would really grow. Millions of people download this game only to quit playing, why not fix the things that makes people quit instead of adding another class with almost no counter-play?
Maybe being a cry baby like other CCs isn’t paying off.
@play030 Pretty soon the only people left with be sycophants, be patient. Then you all can live in a fantasy world created by WEEGEE and suck their teats as they vacuum your wallets.
“We couldn’t fix destroyers so we added a class of ship we said we would never add to our game” – give these guys your money people, they can be trusted…
@Fafnir Legion you realize that they wouldn’t exist if people didn’t spend money right?
@Joshua D not my problem
I am not sure they will get my money. The Premium Account is counting down close to zero now, and I am not sure I will renew this time. Too many CV games, and too many CVs per game, are just killing the fun and the ability to learn to play better. I can’t see subs helping that situation.
@Fafnir Legion byyourlogic buying a game is still buying pixels lol or buying movie it’s still pixels so wtf u mean?
@John Smith I mean CV should be part of all games because they are a class in the game like a normal match should have every single class
I don’t know of anybody talking about subs. We’re all – meh.
yeah that’s the world I’d use
I have been against subs in the game all along. Submarine warfare was huge, like he said, but they don’t belong in a fleet battle. And that’s coming from a former submariner.
The OP’ness of a ship is partly determined by how many counters it has. A sub piloted by a skilled player currently have very few counters. – BB’s, CA’s and CV’s dont have any ASW. So, immediately, more than half the ship classes can’t effectively deal with a sub. – DD’s also dont have an effective counter. A skilled player can abuse the 5.9m/6m depth charge damage mechanic and close in on a dd to point blank torpedo them. And with the low HP pool of dd’s, it doesn’t take a lot of torp hits to kill a dd (they are one-shottable by the sub at close range). – CL’s are also vulnerable to the shotgun approach, but slightly less so because of the higher HP. The only thing that limits subs are speed, and the range of their torps (you don’t really want to torp from max range anyways, that’s not the best way to play subs). They excel at spotting, excel in terms of alpha damage, excel in cap control, and have few counters. Reminds me of the CV’s of old, and as a former RTS CV-main, I can tell you that they (as subs are in their current iteration) are very very broken / OP.
Cvs of old was very skill based, the new CVS require no skill, if teams stuck together in old CV, battle it was hard to do anything and you had to duel the other CV to help your team.
If they force the submarines into random battles, I’m done with this game and spent my money elsewhere…
I have been playing a lot of sub games, I have probably 150+ games in.
-The sub depth change mechanic is broken, the whole 6.1/5.9 thing is ridiculous. Somehow coming to the surface makes depth charges hurt less? To avoid depth charges you should have to go deep and you gtfo out of the area. Depth charges would sink their own ship if the ship wasn’t going fast enough in reality so why they thought the current model was a good idea is beyond me.
-submarines intelligence data gathering is broken. Unless they are at periscipe depth they should not benefit from the minimap. By this I mean they should not receive realtime info from teammates unless at a depth of <=6. -subs are too fast. Even in a DD, it takes time to catch them sometimes. Which is ridiculous, they should be between a BB and cruiser speeds. -depth charges should hurt ships, in order to drop them you should have to be going at least 3/4 speed to avoid damaging yourself. -when a sub is spotted and its "impossible to hit" your secondaries should not focus on it. I fucking hate that all of my secondaries focus on a sub 30m down and then I get penalized because one of my 2ndary guns hurts the friendly dd trying to depth charge the sub. -CVs should have AWS. It was a very hated job by Avenger pilots, there are even records of AWS planes trying to use depth charges on ships because there wasn't time to rearm with bombs. -The non AWS ships and sub interaction needs to be fixed. I don't know how though. Would love some to hear thoughts on this. -subs should have to resurface. I think WG had it right with the O2 mechanic in beta testing. This new battery thing is shit. - i don't think subs are being given the right test. Subs as Zoup said should be used for area denial, sneak into cap, or ambushs. Not yolo down mid like everyone is doing. The problem is it seems like WG is trying to make subs so they fit the entire community playstyle and not the playstyle they should be: slow and tactical. - i think subs overall are kind of a flop. There are numerous sub games to help WG figure out what sub mechanics work and which ones don't, for example: Cold Waters, U-boat, Wolfpack, or the entire Silent hunter series. I understand these are not arcade games but they should help spark at least some ideas on what a sub should be and the mechanics it should have in game.
@derek96720 their surface speed is okay I guess but under water they should be significantly slower. The subs we are playing were much slower underwater. They also had to go slow to avoid detection.
That actually brings up a good point. A subs submerged detection should be impacted by their speed. Let them keep their 20 kt speed under water but up the detection if they are going faster than 1/4speed (obviously 1/2, 3/4, and full speed would have different impacts).
@Narajan Husic i dount WG will ever see this (maybe Zoup can show it to his contacts at WG) and if they did I doubt they would consider any of it. From what the CCs I watch say it seems WG is of the belief that the dissent in the community is the loud few and that the majority of the community like the game and its direction but are quiet. Based on the chat in game, I think most people are loud and quick to voice any thought that comes to their head.
Underwater speed should definitely affect detection.
CVs and BBs do need air ASW capabilities
I also agree that depth charges should only hurt less the deeper you go.
The home torpedoes are not overpowering.
Also, go back to the O2 mechanic instead of the battery charge.
Jordan They are much slower underwater, about 15 knots. I agree subs should have to resurface, but keep it as batteries and not 02 to keep it more realistic, as subs would run out of battery long before the carbon dioxide builds up. I also think torpedoes shouldn’t be homing, and instead you have to launch them at periscope depth after waiting a bit to have a firing solution or something similar. Also, depth charges are way too OP. One pass, even if they are half a kilometer away, will kill you. Which is absolute bull as they would need to explode only a few feet from you to do any damage, and even then a sub could survive a few passes
I don’t think depth charges damaging ships other than subs is a good idea, destroyers are already screwed enough.
Submarines at the moment are wrong, deeply wrong. I like playing them, despite some weirdness in pinging with it, it may be just lack of my ability. But playing against them is completely wrong – BBs and big CCs can’t do nothing against subs, without hydro they can’t even locate them, they should have at least some notification about being pinged, in the end, if sub doesnt surface, you have no chance and the dont have any reason to do that. If i played as DD – when everybody else is dead in the end of battle, submarine has only one chance to do all in and try to shoot me with torps in close combat, but it can wiggle between surface and operation depth, si they can evade shells and depth charges for a long time. Even locating subs without hydro is big pain in the ass – you are spotted all the time and if sub doesnt move, you cant locate it by hydrophone. In the end, killing sub can take even few minutes. But as DD, you wont last few minutes spotted by any cruiser or even battleship with HE loaded. Most tragic was when i tried to run from 4-5 enemy ships different classes, constantly spotted by sub, which i wasnt able to do anything and before i was able to run away from it, i was dead. Be it enemy DD, i would have at least a chance, this way it was a slaughter. First – make some alert about being pinged by enemy submarine, second – stop sharing spotting info from submarine to other vessels while submarine is submerged OR make it optional – something as secondary/AA fire, but sbumarine should be detected within spotting distance. There should be some possibility to kill submarine even for CA/BB/CV, not sure about a way, but when all DDs are dead (which is pretty common early in a battle) submarines can be killed only by other subs and given a submarines speed, there’s no assurance, they will even met during a round…
I’ve played my T-61 and Icarus exclusively and had fun sinking them.
They dont belong in game and Wargaming promised they would not be in game years ago in closed beta.
So much for that.
“I’m going to give Wargaming the benefit of the doubt here” And you’ve already lost me, Zoup. They don’t deserve it in the slightest.
Yeah, I am baffled by Zoup here. The last 18 months have been one massive clusterfuck after another for Wargaming. Nor does the current state of the submarines warrant much optimism. To put those two together and come out thinking things will turn out just great is delusional.
Honestly, The game doesn’t need another thing that Battleships have absolutely nothing they can really do to counter it.
Liam Ellis that’s true, but like it’s a game. It’s not “fun” really to go against it. It’s about enjoying the game and having fun not suffering, because it’s “accurate history combat”
@KillerXDX Yeah and if we want to be all “accurate history combat” than we shouldn’t have Montana, tier 9 and 10 German BB’s, IJN cruisers, and German cruisers, no Alaska, and let’s not forget ALMOST THE ENTIRE SOVIET FACTION in the game. You’re either “historically accurate” in a game or you’re not and WG has already crossed that line by putting in ships that only existed on paper or barely had a keel or hull before they were scrapped.
@Liam Ellis Yeah, but guess what.. The subs LOST the battle of the Atlantic.
sempermilites87 the USS Alaska is a real ship it is the Puerto Rico that is not real plus learn your ship lessons
@sempermilites87 Alaska is a real ship ijn cruisers are real most german cruisers are real bruh
Killing Cvs planes is unsatisfactory and does nothing to the cv…. fighters are broken…. no way wg is going to get subs right, they can’t even implement the cv correctly.
Ur delusional if you don’t think subs are broken with their torp belt bypass and their submerged spotting.
I mean they did see me right until they keep f****** it up many times because he cowered down to stupid fuckers they’re too retarded to know how to play the game so they listen to people who barely play the game but our wallet warriors and don’t know what they doing
I so disagree.. Keep it separate from Random, or i am out.. Make more missions, and more maps instead.. Nothing happens there, only new Russian buy ships now a days, and other things to pay 4.. Getting a bit annoyed
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